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Post by threelitre on Dec 1, 2014 18:26:58 GMT
Excellent....
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Nov 26, 2014 22:08:57 GMT
Air springs are fine - but they will need shock absorbers! Which - of course - can be fitted but need serious changes to the body work.
My father's 1800 has received 2 new displacers over the last ten years - both replaced with new ones right out of the box. A luxury I will not be able to repeat too often anymore...
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Nov 25, 2014 18:38:15 GMT
Ideally the club should join forces with Maxi and 1100 clubs - a large part of the investment can be shared.
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Nov 24, 2014 21:22:00 GMT
My intention is to have the article published in the other relevant club magazines - it seems it is time to do so now.
I do know about the MGF solution... BUT: This solution has a number of (big) flaws. In many coutries it is not legal, as necessary engineering reports (costing some thousends of Euros/Pounds Sterling) are missing - I hear it should be legal for Germany soon. It also puts too much stress on the MGF's shock absorber mounts, with a few cases of cracked bodywork already having appeared. Possible OK for a sports car, but for a saloon car it would be very difficult or impossible to ge a useful amount of progression into these springs. I know of an ADO 16 that was converted with a very highly engineered solution (very expensive too) - and of course it is possible to have springs and shock absorbers made to measure. But I am pretty sure that it will be less expensive to manage a small scale reconditioning job for Hydrolastic units compared to a properly engineered steel suspension. On top of keeping an integral part of the car's engineering alive.
Hydragas will - of course - have a similar problem occasionally. At first Hydrolastic is longer lasting, but Hydragas catches up as soon as the units are refilled and kept in that condition (I was probably not the first to do that, in fact that was Alex Moulton himself, but I was the first to publicise this and offer the service as part of my hobby).
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Nov 24, 2014 0:28:20 GMT
Indeed, when I was on the phone with Tony Wood regarding some spares, this topic was discusses already some time ago. Alex Moulton's test dates back to 2006, when he did show me the results and also handed me the copy of a drawing showing the pieces manufactured to refit the body. A similar discussion recently happened on the Princess (wedge) forum, where I proposed a similar approach. I think it is safe to assume that any kind of re-manufacture keeping the original steel parts will be cheaper than all possible repacements with a completly different system of springs and dampers.
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Nov 23, 2014 22:43:24 GMT
Well, here is a text I wrote for the ADO16 club magazine - I think the future of Hydrolastic and Hydragas cars will be to keep interconnected suspension! At least mine will do...
------------------------ The future of Hydrolastic suspension
All owners of Hydrolastic-sprung cars certainly know the big advantages these suspensions give to the ride and handling of the cars. But many will by now also know the downside. Due to the age of the systems, failures of spring units start to get more often. Bear in mind, that nearly all Hydrolastic units are now older then 40 years! Quite impressive for a highly loaded piece of rubber, which forms the spring in these cars.
Keep it or replace it?
It cannot be denied that modern standard steel spring and damper suspension have come a long way since the 60s and do work very well. And computations can help to adjust the rates close to getting perfect even before the first test drive. With this in mind, the question should be allowed, if a replacement made of standard springs and dampers cannot be made. Of course this is possible and has already been done to my knowledge to at least one 1300 and one Austin Allegro. And there are – of course – kits available to replace the rubber springs in Minis and Hydragas on the MGF. But this requires quite a bit of effort and specifically made parts, so it will be quite expensive.
So why not try to keep Hydrolastic? There will be a day, one day, when no original unit will be in working condition anymore. It is already getting more and more difficult to get hold of good working ones. New ones out of the box are a rarity since a couple of years. Due to the great resilience of the units in the first place, the amount of spares produced was quite small. On the other hand, there are good reasons to think about ways to keep Hydrolastic working. For one it was one of the defining features of the ADO16, so an important part of keeping one of these in original condition to preserve as a classic. On the other hand the ride experienced with Hydrolastic cannot be replicated with a conventional setup. The reason is, that both spring rates and damping rates are highly progressive, both increasing with the load of the car in a way that the car 'feels' roughly the same, independant of the load. And this is before getting the interconnection of the units on each side into play. Today similar effects are achieved using very sophisticated computerised adaptive damping and anti-roll systems.
The late Dr. Alex Moulton was well aware of the problems owners of cars with 'his' suspension system may have in the future, as well as some shortcomings particular in the ADO16. During a couple of meetings over the past 10 years he has shown me a possible solution.
There are generally 3 problems arising with Hydrolastic units:
1) The lower diaphragm, which houses the push-rod with the cone may split. In many cases a damage of this membranes can occur if there is dirt or corrosion trapped between the cone and the rubber. If a unit is out of the car, it is adviseable to clean this area.
2) The rubber hose attached to the units may split. This problem has already been dealt with. A new hose can be attached by using a strong clip, as is done by the Landcarb (1800) club for some time now. This is close to the way the original fitting was attached and the preferred solution for durability.
3) The rubber spring ages and may eventually burst. This is a slow process and usually shows itself in the spring 'bulging' out of the unit together with a slight degradation in ride quality over ridges or small bumps.
There is not yet a possibility to deal with problem 1), as this would not only mean to open the unit, but also to have the diaphragm remade. So trying to keep this in good shape seems necessary. As stated, failure 2 can be rectified by adding a new hose. This leads to dealing with fatigue of the rubber spring itself.
Dr. Alex Moulton has put some thought into this issue and came up with two possible solutions. The first idea was to add a flat steel-spring on the top of the Hydrolastic units, taking on the load as long as the rubber spring itself has no leaks. In some cars this idea would have lead to installation problems due to space requirements. Discussing this with contacts in the car supplying industry the conclusion is that it will actually be possible and not very expensive to remould the rubber springs, even in small series, if the metal parts were supplied. This is the key problem: Due to the needed strength re-manufacture of the steel parts seems to be prohibitive due to the cost involved. So the steel pressings would need to be re-used. The units will need to be opened and re-sealed for this kind of repair.
There are three major steel parts forming a Hydrolastic unit: One almost tube shaped piece containing the rubber spring (or rubber cheese, as Moulton called them), a 'hat' shaped part containing the damper and separating spring and displacer in the middle and last the cut-off cone containing the displacer diaphragm with the actuating rod and cone. During fabrication all three parts with all internals were put into a press and then the overlapping edge was rolled to form the rim in the centre holding all three parts firmly together. The first step, opening them, is relatively straight forward: The rolled part of the edge needs to be carefully removed. The three parts can be separated afterwards from each other for inspection and replacement of rubber parts.
Dr. Moulton came up with a solution how to close the units again. Three rings where manufactured, practically creating a kind of compression fitting held together with a large captive nut in the place where the original joint was. The ring around the spring unit needs to be split in halves to be able to be fitted, whilst the other ring and the captive nut can be slid over the unit from the displacer end. Tightening these should be done in a hydraulic press similar to the original process. Dr. Moulton actually has had a prototype made and put it into a test bed to check the unit after refitting successfully.
So right now the plan is laid how Hydrolastic units can be partially refurbished. The rubber internals and the connection hose can be renewed using the method described above. Also the possibility of combining intact parts of units to a working one is given. As the damper valves are also accessible when the unit is dismantled, these can also be renewed or even modified to address the weakness of the installation in the ADO16.
Right now it would be worth considering that the club, or individual members, collect all Hydrolastic units, even those with defects. Dr. Moulton advised us not to throw any of them away to secure the future use. They might - apart from directly keeping cars on the road with intact units - be a valuable source of spares for the reconditioning process of Hydrolastic units.
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Post by threelitre on Nov 3, 2014 13:37:27 GMT
Charly, I have got the box sitting on my desk - I'll put up a picture tonight. Regards, Alexander Edit: Picture...
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Post by threelitre on Oct 27, 2014 13:48:49 GMT
I know that there was often a clock pictured in the brochures, but the clock was never fitted from the factory. And back in the early 70s, when my father was trying to find one, he was unable to find one actually fitting the hole. In the end he bought one (maybe for and XJ6) at a BL dealer (new!), ditched the chrome frame and fabricated his own narrower frame from silver painted card board, so that the frame would sit between the upper and lower strips like the speedo. Personally I think that there was never a clock to properly fill that hole.
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Oct 26, 2014 17:36:12 GMT
Ah, I thought your car was RHD because the picture above shows the RH door... You can of course have the new one, I will just have to check if the box contains what is written on it.
I will have to look up how much postage would be, you could pay me using PayPal if you like. The parcel may end up cheaper with just the chrome bits of the grab handle - I will look into that!
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Oct 26, 2014 13:48:33 GMT
Hi Charly, a lengthy search - sorry about that. I have a 2nd hand RH front door lock (all my new ones are LH!) and found only one grab handle with the chrome covers. I was sure I had at least 3, but was unable to find more than 1. Anyway, here they are: Regards, Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Oct 12, 2014 21:38:23 GMT
Oops, sorry - I tried to find them in a hurry before we left for half-term hols. Now I am back and will find them. My brother is living in the US and will be visiting us here in Europe. If it is small parts like the grab handle bits and a front door lock I can ask him to bring them to the US and post them from there. Where about are you located?
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Sept 26, 2014 12:07:24 GMT
That's just a 'normal' 18/85 MkII interior - more or less the same than the Austin 3 Litre de Luxe. The trim colour is "Autumn Leaf", available from 1971 model year (I think). It replaced "Mushroom" (or so), which was the rather - erm - sh* brown colour available before. Our first 1800 S was Bedouin with Autumn Leaf interior - very nice!
It seems to me though, as if the Wolseley seats have a smoother 'grain' stamped into the material compared to the Austin 3 litre. There is a marked difference between some seats, although I am not too shure if there has been a change over the years anyway.
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Sept 25, 2014 8:43:34 GMT
I think I may have what you need and also the door lock if still needed. Shipping to the USA should not be a problem. I will have a look in my spares stack tonight.
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by threelitre on Sept 25, 2014 8:15:04 GMT
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Post by threelitre on Sept 17, 2014 22:51:24 GMT
Indeed, very charming! I may add, that no 1800 will ever be as charming as these Mk1 1100s. And no 1800 will ever be the same fun to drive, even if it has twice the power, more comfort, space and strength! The ADO16 has many quirks and a serious (hidden) rust problem, but I can hardly imagine a car that gives me the same joy to drive! That price seems rather cheap, you'll find it very hard to find one (if at all) in that condition for that sort of money I would think.
Having driven all Hydrolastic cars (Mini, ADO16, Maxi, 1800 and 3 litre), I would say that they fall into two groups: The same people were responsible for the ADO16 and the Maxi, hence the Maxi to me feels more like a grown up (but less fun) ADO16 than a shrunken Landcrab. The 1800 and 3 litre feel much more different than the looks suggest, but they also share a lot - like solidity in feel and big car ride - both from the hands of Ron Nicholls if I remember correctly.
Why should it be for small sunday drives only? On paper it does not sound very capable, but I more than once covered huge distances in ADO16s - including a 1100km trip in a Austin 1100 Mk1 as above in one go. And up to 110-120kph they feel happy and keep up with modern traffic with surprising ease!
Regards,
Alexander
PS: Parts supply for the ADO16 seems better than for the 1800, including all sorts of body panels.
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