bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 26, 2020 19:33:17 GMT
OK, just got my new 68 Crabby home, starts and runs fine (Engine wise), but fails to proceed (clutch wise), which, I knew upon purchase......
Hydraulics seem to be OK, with motor running, when you depress the clutch, about 2 inches off the floor, you can feel a bit of extra resistance (as the release bearing takes up), and, the engine drops a few revs, so, assume everything is as it should be through the release bearing, right up to the pressure plate........There is no extra noise, vibration, shuddering .etc when depressing and releasing the clutch pedal, other than the very slight drop in engine revs.......
I can select all gears, inc. reverse easily, there is no indication that any of the gearbox internals are rotating at all....
I can even select all gears without depressing the clutch at all, again, with no indication that any gearbox internals are spinning........At all...
In over 55 years of servicing/restoring British cars, I have never seen a clutch so worn out, that there wouldn't be some drag on the gearbox internals.....But, I got nothing.....
All and any ideas (before I rip this thing apart) much appreciated....
|
|
|
|
Post by jeff on May 26, 2020 21:49:34 GMT
Hi BWA
If you can select gears without disengaging the clutch my first thoughts would be to check clutch release arm Clevis pin isn't badly worn or seized with the clutch disengaged. A less likely cause could be the slave or even master cylinder seized..you'll have to take out the battery tray etc to get a good investipoke down there.
Even more unlikely is the clutch itself is seized open..
Any of the above could have happened if the car was left standing for a very long time and someone pressed the pedal down. The pressure plate spring could be so weak or broken that it cant close the clutch plates.
I would go for the easy stuff first, pivot,operating arm, etc and try and free it off. Once you get that Clevis pin out of the push rod, the arm that disappears into the end of engine should spring back towards the engine.
If it does you're probably looking at a seized or corroded cylinder. If it doesn't you might well have to remove the engine for further investigation.
|
|
bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 26, 2020 22:04:02 GMT
Thanks for the reply, but, read my post more carefully, the hydraulics work fine, slave is new, you can feel the release bearing engage through the pedal, and, the engine slows down slightly (as it should).......So, the whole system seems to be working as it should, up to the pressure plate......You can feel the diaphragm pushing back through the clutch pedal as you depress and release it........
Apparently the previous owner drove to the gas station, filled up, and, the car at that point, upon re starting, would not proceed, had to have it towed home.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Penguin45 on May 26, 2020 23:07:21 GMT
Hi BWA.
If you're sure everything else is working it really must be the friction plate. Lining stripped perhaps? I have heard tales of the plate breaking away from the splined hub, although not on our cars. The carbon release bearing can cause some odd problems as well.
Chris.
|
|
bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 27, 2020 1:00:06 GMT
Yeah, starting to think that, about 40 years ago, I was pounding down the highway in one of my Mini's, slipped the gear leaver into neutral at about 100 KPH, and, coasted down the exit ramp, came to a complete stop at the end, put it into gear, and, had NO drive, none at all.....Towed the car home, and took it apart, there was nothing but dust in the bottom of the clutch housing, not a speck remained on the disc.....yet, up till then, it had been working perfectly.....
I suspect possibly something like that has happened.....
So, other than a clutch kit, what other parts am I going to need, seals/gaskets and such.....
And, even more importantly, where can I get it all, and, hopefully, everything at one place....
|
|
|
|
Post by dave1800 on May 27, 2020 2:55:20 GMT
Welcome! Have you tried jacking the car up with one front wheel free to rotate and tried turning it both in and out of gear? That would allow to to check if there is any connection between the engine and gearbox?
David
|
|
bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 27, 2020 3:32:13 GMT
No, but, will give it a try tomorrow, although, not sure what it will tell me......I'm pretty sure that if I can put it in and out of any gear with the engine running, and, not depressing the clutch pedal, that, there is no connection between the two.....
|
|
|
|
Post by dave1800 on May 27, 2020 4:34:03 GMT
There maybe some connection through the clutch plate that you could feel but is insufficient to drive the car. It is also just possible that there is a problem within the diff that you could may be able to detect by rotating each front wheel in turn - unlikely but a simple check. Most likely a catastrophic clutch plate failure but good to be able to confirm a diagnosis before going further.
David
|
|
|
|
Post by 1800heap on May 27, 2020 5:54:09 GMT
Hi
When the engine is running and you are out of gear without pressing the clutch can you hear the transfer gears turning?. If you do not something bad has happend to the clutch or shaft. There are 3 gears that transfer drive from the clutch down to the gear box. There is a nut that can come loose that holds the bottom gear in place. In general if it comes loose it will wear through the housing and do bad things. On vehicles with a functioning clutch when you depress the clutch these gears will stop revolving and you can hear them do so. Problems other than hydraulic will result in you having to take the engine out so by the sound of it this is the direction you are heading!
Nick
|
|
|
|
Post by dave1800 on May 27, 2020 6:07:07 GMT
If the nut comes loose, you will probably see lots of shiny aluminium particles on the dip-stick, voice of bitter experience you don't want to see that! David Hi When the engine is running and you are out of gear without pressing the clutch can you hear the transfer gears turning?. If you do not something bad has happend to the clutch or shaft. There are 3 gears that transfer drive from the clutch down to the gear box. There is a nut that can come loose that holds the bottom gear in place. In general if it comes loose it will wear through the housing and do bad things. On vehicles with a functioning clutch when you depress the clutch these gears will stop revolving and you can hear them do so. Problems other than hydraulic will result in you having to take the engine out so by the sound of it this is the direction you are heading! Nick |
|
bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 27, 2020 13:29:27 GMT
long time Mini guy (down to my last 6 at the moment), so, know all about transfer gear noises, this thing is dead quiet in that respect..... Bit of a heat wave going on here at the moment, hopefully cooler on the weekend, will try and pull the lump then.... Just taking off the ancillaries in the mean time.....It just amazes me how original and unmessed with this car is.....It really is a time warp vehicle.... So far, I see only two non original bits in the engine compartment, one is a green wire going from firewall to the coil to feed a little two inch tach mounted just above the steering column, and, a home made copper tee for a vacuum gauge port for a two inch vacuum gauge beside the tach......The cooper tee is plumbed between the EGR valve and the manifold....It was rather a bit loose, and, is possibly the cause of lazy hot starts, and, slightly high idle speed......  BWA1968-Blue-1800-Landcrab-02 BWACar-At-The-Farm-02 BWACar-At-The-Farm-01 |
|
|
|
Post by jeff on May 27, 2020 13:33:31 GMT
Yep, I did read all of your post. Just one more thing you could try before pulling the lump out..disconnect the push rod and see how much free play there is in the operating arm. If there is loads of free movement, you know where to go next. Good luck.
|
|
bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 27, 2020 19:01:01 GMT
Well, interestinger and interestinger.........Some small progress.....Sort of............maybe.....
Jeff's suggestion was actually next on my list of things to try (was starting to think the arm wasn't releasing far enough to re engage the clutch), since everything is probably coming out anyway...
Out with the battery shelf, had my buddy step on the clutch, clutch arm moves out fine, returns fine (just like I could feel it through the pedal)...Out with the slave cylinder....And, sure enough, rather than having excessive play/clearance, the clutch arm was seized pretty solid, only working in the small range under the pressure of the hydraulics.......
Well, after much Argo, big hammers, ViceGrips and long tube over the vice grips kinda thing, and, lots of squirty stuff down the hole, I got it moving (though, still quite stiff), all the way back to what feels like it's natural rest spot......
And, guess what..........yeah, still no drive when in gear....
BUT, I can no longer put it in gear without using the clutch, so, gearbox internals, and, drop gears all seem to be working as they should......
So, I guess I am making some progress sort of...
Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far....
Did manage to find the big gasket for the clutch housing cover in my Big Stash O Stuff.........
|
|
|
|
Post by Penguin45 on May 27, 2020 22:45:32 GMT
In answer to an earlier question regarding spares. Clutch friction plate is GCP116 and is an MGB part, so easily found. Push rod is 22B 65, also an MG part. Clevis pins are generic imperial parts. Gasket conversion set is GEG806. Rare and hard to find. Clutch cover fits 1800 only. P/no GCC163. Pop up on eBay UK regularly. Clutch release bearing is unique to 1800. P/no GRB117. Again, pop up on eBay UK regularly. Discussion of alternative part HERE. It works.  . Alternatively, you contact Tony Wood - spareathought@landcrab.net - the LOCI spares guru. He will sell spares to non-club members, but "good form" is to join the club. He'll have everything. Post to Canada might be a bit eyewatering, but you'll get the lot. Chris. |
|
bwa
Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by bwa on May 28, 2020 0:05:21 GMT
Thanks.
How far does the graphite sit above the cast iron part of the release bearing, I have one, with a bit less than 1/4" sticking up....
Clutch plate I can source locally, pushrod and pins I can make, depending what the pressure plate looks like, might not need that (will know better when I get it apart).
The release bearing sounds very quiet and smooth, and, I have 2 inches of pedal left when it releases, so, might not be that bad.....
Oddly enough, I do have the conversion kit......
So far, everything points to being mechanically and hydraulically OK, other than the fact I still have no drive, my only conclusion is, that the disc has dropped all it's lining (like happened to my Mini once)....
Anyway, should know on the weekend, will let you all know, thanks again for all the help and hints....
Oh, what about seals???
|
|
.