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Post by indianajones on Jun 26, 2015 1:41:37 GMT
I also hate them lol. Spent ages trying to remember how it goes back in!
-Andrew
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Post by dave1800 on Jun 26, 2015 7:36:59 GMT
I recall you fitting it without any comments of what a pain it was so I am relieved to hear you are actually in the "hate them" group with Chris and me. The first time I took one apart I only allowed a short time for the job as it looked so straight forward! Don't some people believe the octopus is an alien? David I also hate them lol. Spent ages trying to remember how it goes back in! -Andrew |
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Post by Penguin45 on Jun 26, 2015 20:42:17 GMT
 Oops.... Chris. |
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Post by snoopy11 on Jun 26, 2015 21:18:20 GMT
As can be seen Chris has managed to break GLE again.
Open bonnet prodding reviewed the issue of stopping on a motorway was caused by a dodgy condenser.
As a knee jerk reaction to the problem I am thinking of swapping to an electronic ignition. In particular the Accuspark system that comes in a kit of coil, electronic distributor, new leads and plugs. Has anyone any experience of this as the comments on the tinterweb are a mixed bag.
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Post by Penguin45 on Jun 26, 2015 23:05:14 GMT
Just as an aside to the failure to proceed, I've just been having a jar or two with Ady and this came up in the conversation. He pointed out that the points gap closing up (which they had) will fry the condenser.
If you've followed the forum for a while, you'll know that I had a long and convoluted experiment with electronic ignition. I think all I'd say is that we got the car going again for £5 and in 5 minutes (once we found a condenser). If an electronic one fails, you are stranded. Unless you've shelled out rather more pennies in order to carry a spare, which seems to defeat the idea of electronic ignition being a "fit and forget" solution.
Chris.
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Post by dave1800 on Jun 27, 2015 0:38:32 GMT
My "solution" was to carry a spare contact breaker already adjusted on a spare plate. In the event of the electronic unit failing it was a 5 minute job to exchange the plates just 2 screws to remove and re- connect the vacuum unit. I recently watched a Youtube review of capacitor failures (not car type but the same principle used in mains droppers for LED bulbs). The metallised foil used now in many high voltage capacitors had gradually deteriorated such that portions of the vacuum applied metal had disappeared presumably through thousands of tiny flashovers until the remaining capacitor value had fallen to such a low level it no longer functioned. If you have a capacitance option on your multimeter you can see if the failed car capacitor value has fallen from a nominal 0.2 uf and a working voltage of circa 500v. Maybe of interest for your white goods repairs. I had always assumed these were low risk and go first to checking the electrolytics. David Just as an aside to the failure to proceed, I've just been having a jar or two with Ady and this came up in the conversation. He pointed out that the points gap closing up (which they had) will fry the condenser. If you've followed the forum for a while, you'll know that I had a long and convoluted experiment with electronic ignition. I think all I'd say is that we got the car going again for £5 and in 5 minutes (once we found a condenser). If an electronic one fails, you are stranded. Unless you've shelled out rather more pennies in order to carry a spare, which seems to defeat the idea of electronic ignition being a "fit and forget" solution. Chris. |
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Post by dave1800 on Jun 27, 2015 1:07:15 GMT
All I can do is to remind you that the components of an electronic ignition system are exposed to thermal and high voltage stress and vibration especially if mounted inside the distributor. That requires manufacturers to use auto grade components (typically -40C to 150C spec) that may be several times the cost of their lower temperature counterparts. You can't do anything about that and there is no guarantee that more expensive units will be better. The reasons there are mixed reviews may be due to quality control issues, some cars running hotter than others or used in hotter climates. However they may be due to the owners not understanding the requirements. There are a number of things you can do to ensure the units are not damaged: ensure the coil primary resistance (and ballast if fitted) is no lower than specified or it will overload the unit; ensure all plug leads are kept in good condition and their resistance is no higher (or sometime lower) than specified. A bad plug lead will cause the coil voltage to build up higher and be dissippated in the unit's output transistor know as an IGBT resulting in failure; NEVER take off a plug lead to see if there is a spark. A spark tester is essential. Some units were known to fail instantly if you remove a lead. I see car videos where experiened mechanics still pull off plug leads to look for a spark.The problem is that the damage it causes to the IGBT is cumulative. It works but is weakened. The car owner pays the price maybe months down the line. To see the effect get a piece of cigarette paper or similar thin paper and place it between a HT lead and the car body (not electronic ignition!). You will see hundreds of microscopic holes in the paper and that's what happens in the IGBT. (The IGBTs designed for ignition use do have some protection against this type of damage and are much better than they used to be. But they can only do so much). Keep the distributor cap and rotor arm in good condition. The higher voltage from the electronic unit places more stress on them. Ensure the plug gap is not excessive. The larger the gap the greter the stress on the unit as the HT voltage rises as the gap widens. Ensure all LT leads are well supported and not allowed to vibrate to avoid fracture failures. They are certainly not fit and forget they require the HT side including plugs to be kept in good condition. They do, however, ensure that the ignition timing doesn't change as it does with contact breakers and so can give more consistent performance and economy. They may overcome some of the problems associated with the distributor bearing wear as adverts claim but I am uncertain whether this is valid. At the price worth a try, but keep a spare c-b and plate in the boot! Regards David As can be seen Chris has managed to break GLE again. Open bonnet prodding reviewed the issue of stopping on a motorway was caused by a dodgy condenser. As a knee jerk reaction to the problem I am thinking of swapping to an electronic ignition. In particular the Accuspark system that comes in a kit of coil, electronic distributor, new leads and plugs. Has anyone any experience of this as the comments on the tinterweb are a mixed bag. |
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Post by tommydp on Jun 27, 2015 9:31:06 GMT
Hi Chris! First of all, another jobb well done!
Strange thing these points keep closing up for you. A bit like my timing chain and cam issues:-) I'm sure you've thought of it, but you use the two washers for the mounting screw? That is one flat and one spring washer originally. I can't see what causes it to close up so far the car will stop. Mine are usually within dwell spec for a long time, after some re adjustment as the points are bedding in. I've never experienced points closing so much the car will stop.
I recommend everyone who run points to get a dwell meter! 60 degrees for a 25 d and 51 degrees for the 45 d distributoris correct. And remember to re check your ignition timing after you've adjusted the points gap/ dwell angle.
I'll stick to points! I've tried electronic ignition which was ok. The difference was the timing marks were rock steady with it, the coil kept ice cold. However, I didn't notice any different performance and it fires quicker on cold starting wih points. When the unit failed, I went back to points. After all it was designed to work. Just buy quality parts and service the ignition components you should be fine.
Regards, Tommy
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Post by Penguin45 on Jun 27, 2015 13:31:23 GMT
Right - what happened was: The car ran through Bradford and down onto the M62 beautifully, up onto the moors and across to Lancashire no problem, then dropping down into Lancashire an intermittent mis-fire started, which over 10 minutes got down to plain rough running, lack of power, backfiring and an inabilty to hold any sort of speed. It quickly became undriveable and the safest option was to pull off - which I couldn't do, as I was now in 15 miles of roadworks with no hard shoulder. The best I could do was to land on the bottom of an "on" slip road. The picture shows the slip road closed and the inside lane of the M62 closed. I'm sure I was very popular...... It didn't actually stop - it just wouldn't go! Anyway, got dropped off at Birch Services, where a lurking AA man put down his cup of tea and got a gap set on the points. Nice chap. Snoopy rang back to say that there were points and a condenser in the car, but I was damned if I could find them. Everything had cooled down somewhat and starting off, the car ran quite well - until it all warmed up again! Pulled off at Heywood and Snoopy and I played "hunt the motor factors" on the mobile phone. Times have changed - these once common as muck parts are now no longer a stock item, or indeed, an identifiable part! We found one who had a condenser but no points. Fitted it and mercifully GLE ran all the way back to Bolton without a further murmur. Anyway, it'll all be fine, as I put Snoopy's address on the paperwork for the recovery driver.    Chris. |
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Post by snoopy11 on Jun 27, 2015 23:24:04 GMT
Anyway, it'll all be fine, as I put Snoopy's address on the paperwork for the recovery driver. Thanks Chris. You broke it and I'm going to get the blame ...... I took the car up to Preston today and whilst it did run ok it spluttered once or twice. Points still have gap and I would assume the condenser is ok having only done about fifty miles. I've no idea what's going on. |
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Post by snoopy11 on Jun 28, 2015 18:58:52 GMT
Another little job that needed sorting was to look at the windscreen wash. The pump was making a noise but no fluid was being pumped. Even when primed.
A trip to a local scrappie furnished me with a free of charge pump. It's not quite right but it will do until I can get a single way pump. Modern cars seem to use a two way pump. The hardest thing to find was a one way valve for the bottom of the tube. I tried five local car part shops and one couldn't be had anywhere.
On my travels I called at a pet shop for fish food. They had a one way valve for aquarium air lines. It seems to work fine.
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Post by Penguin45 on Jun 28, 2015 23:00:39 GMT
I'd try the one way valve on the existing pump first, before changing it. You'll need to prime it (suck!), but it should then hold fluid and (if it is actually working), squirt. Worth a go, as the current one looks the part.
Chris.
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Post by dave1800 on Jun 29, 2015 0:37:37 GMT
Here is an article that demonstrates why the distributor condensers are not reliable and a suggested alternative. I am not sure that the alternative is such a permanent solution as the author suggests as I know only too well from owning Saabs that used a form of CDI that these types of capacitor fail too. David Capacitor Failure He pointed out that the points gap closing up (which they had) will fry the condenser. Chris. |
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Post by tommydp on Jun 29, 2015 6:33:29 GMT
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Post by snoopy11 on Jun 29, 2015 18:10:58 GMT
I'd try the one way valve on the existing pump first, before changing it. You'll need to prime it (suck!), but it should then hold fluid and (if it is actually working), squirt. Worth a go, as the current one looks the part. Chris. It's buggered. It is not sucking at all. Just making a noise to confuse you. |
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