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Post by dave1800 on Jul 27, 2014 2:14:58 GMT
A few more thoughts. As Tommy says examine the plugs when it is smoking to see if it relates to all cylinders suggesting oil coming into the manifold (crankcase breathing)or 1 or 2 cylinders which could indicate a head gasket issue leaking oil/water at a certain range of temperatures - clutching at more straws. I would have thought like you that valve seal problems would have shown up when starting from cold. Head gasket could also account for overheating - is this an issue only apparent in the recent hot weather? If so I wonder if your HIFs run a bit weaker when very hot as they have thermostatic compensation. My experience is that the 1800 engine doesn't like to run weak at low rpm it seems to be quite critical as I've mentioned elsewhere in previous posts. I think a few minutes with a compression tester, looking at plugs and a vacuum gauge should help solving the mystery. regards David Hmmm - not so sure about the success claim. She's still runing hot. MrsP is away in the Ulysse (See New Car thread), so I'm doing a few jobs out of the Wolseley. This is just pottering around north Leeds and environs in the continuing heatwave. Fluid loss has stopped, but she's stil hot. Plenty of antifreeze added, so a bit puzzled. The other odd thing that's happening is that starting up after parking up overnight is absolutely fine - clear exhaust with just the briefest puff of smoke. If I drive for a while and then park for, say, 10-15 minutes, upon re-starting she's smoking fit to bust for several minutes. Can't think of a logical reason for that. Stem seals, maybe? If so, why are they not doing it overnight? Much more time for stuff to dribble down. Bit puzzled. Chris.
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 28, 2014 17:49:51 GMT
Good thoughts, Tommy and David. I have done some basics to start with. Plugs - regapped 1 + 2 (1 quite closed up, reset to .65mm). 1 - biscuit, 2 - black and damp looking, 3 - black and dry looking, 4 - biscuit. Timing spot-on at 13°BTDC static, needed points opening to .40mm. Oiled the little sponge pad. Coolant level down - topped up, made sure there was ½ pint in the expansion bottle. Oil - pint required. Breather clear. Chimney on tappet cover, split feed to carbs. Blew back through, horrible smell but no resistance. Temperature started off high in the "Normal" zone, then settled back to just above the middle. Idle down slightly but steady. Engine running noticably smoother after these little tweaks. However. Parked up for ten minutes after a quick blast round the back roads. White smoke for two minutes on re-starting. I have now just repeated the exercise and it didn't do it. I had started to think that the problem is no. 2 pot. When hot, water is forcing its way past the head gasket into the cylinder. Re-checked torque setting on head bolts - wrench clicking nicely at 50lb/ft. Now at something of a loss. Chris.
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Post by snoopy11 on Jul 28, 2014 18:59:59 GMT
I don't like to be the harbinger of doom Chris, but this sounds like a head gasket issue to me. It's unlikely to be a crack or anything as it's a new engine.
You could try to tourque the head up to its max and see what happens.
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Post by dave1800 on Jul 29, 2014 2:29:30 GMT
The inconsistency is strange. Try running your finger over the damp black deposit on plug 2 and then licking your finger. The sweet taste of antifreeze seems to linger for hours. It's not addictive! Like Snoopy I am starting to point the finger at a head gasket failure. Do you have a compression tester? I saw a neat trick for cheap testing for pressure leaks in the cooling system using a bicycle inner tube, cut and clamped in series with a hose (or actually replace the top hose) pump it up and check for leaks. I guess this should work for head gaskets too. regards David However. Parked up for ten minutes after a quick blast round the back roads. White smoke for two minutes on re-starting. I have now just repeated the exercise and it didn't do it. I had started to think that the problem is no. 2 pot. When hot, water is forcing its way past the head gasket into the cylinder. Re-checked torque setting on head bolts - wrench clicking nicely at 50lb/ft. Now at something of a loss. Chris.
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Post by tommydp on Jul 29, 2014 11:10:40 GMT
If it's losing coolant, I'd also say it's pointing to the head gasket. However, I remember the blue one had an issue with fouling one plug when idling. It would also start fouling after idling for a while and have white smoke. I never found the cause and believed it was oil because the carbon ring on top of the cylinder wall was gone after a head change. Not sure, but it never lost coolant. After having it back on the road again, it's not had a single issue of trouble. Not sure why, but valves, ignition and mixture now seems spot on.
Is there any sign of coolant in the oil? You could also take a long flat screwdriver and scrape gently the top of the troubled piston. You should be able to smell and feel if it's oil or petrol. Oil would mst likely give some black, sludgy, sticky carbon like stuff rather than a thin layer of soot. Also, double check valve clearance.
You say 13 degrees static. Isn't that too far advanced? That means around 16-17 at idle.
Is there sign of condensed water in the white exhaust when the car is hot and just driven? I suppose this would indicate coolant in the combustion chamber = head gasket.
Good luck:-)
Tommy
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 29, 2014 16:50:15 GMT
Right.
[Red Queen]Off with her head![/Red Queen]
Going to Cornwall on Friday......
Chris.
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 29, 2014 20:30:59 GMT
And back on again! Definitely head gasket. Just visible mark between 2 + 3 on the top of the block. Head gasket. Damaged between 2 + 3. I think you can make it out...... Cleaned all surfaces, drained and dried pistons. Wiped off a lot of the carbon deposits - as predicted, 3 was a bit "gooey" and wiped clean very easily. No discernible step on any bore after around 7,000 miles, so she's wearing well. Shiny, shiny! New copper and steel gasket. It had better last..... And a little peek up into the head - biscuit, blackish, blackish, biscuit - just like the plugs. The head is now back on and torqued up. I will re-check in the morning before I do the rest of the re-assembly. Special thanks to Ady, who innocently wandered down the hill going for a pint, just as I broke the seal on the head and discovered that I couldn't lift it with the exhaust manifold and carbs still on. He grabbed a pair of work gloves and we got the thing off. He then said "You've got two pints worth of time before I come back and we'll put it back on." Which we did. He's a bit of a superstar, is Ady. I'll get her running tomorrow and see where I've got to. Chris.
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Post by tommydp on Jul 29, 2014 21:38:38 GMT
Ah, well done Chris!
Congratulations!
Regards, Tommy
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Post by dave1800 on Jul 30, 2014 6:57:59 GMT
Well done Chris. I know it's a bit late but John Twist apparently inserts a thin piece of copper wire between 2/3 to help prevent leaks. I think every 1800 head I have taken off showed some degree of blowing between these two cylinders but not a water leak. Now the question is - did this cause the overheating (most probably I suspect) or did the overheating cause the gasket failure. Check your carb setting and as Tommy has pointed out timing of 13 degrees BTDC is probably a little too much especially as you have twin carbs I recall. Over advanced ignition timing can cause premature head gasket failure as it raises the in cylinder pressures. See what it runs like backed off to 10 degrees. You may lose a little at the low end but better at higher rpm. Regards David Ah, well done Chris! Congratulations! Regards, Tommy
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 30, 2014 16:47:22 GMT
She's running again. Switched on, waited for the fuel pump to stop and she started first time. Good girl...... Having a bite to eat, then get her over the road on the flat and sort the timeing and valve clearances. Not even a puff of smoke when she fired up, so pretty pleased. Chris.
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 30, 2014 19:43:09 GMT
Timing set, valves set. Had her idling for a few minutes before setting off for a run. Soon as I moved off, white smoke again. It cleared after a minute or two and hasn't done it since. I did the park-and-re-start routine a couple of times and no recurrence, so fingers crossed. Temperature never went over half way and the fluid levels appear to have stayed up. Very slight brief judder under acceleration, but I think I'll live with it just for the moment.
Chris.
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Post by indianajones on Jul 30, 2014 19:51:31 GMT
Well done mate -Andrew
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 31, 2014 18:53:40 GMT
Done about 40 miles today. No smoke, no water loss. I think we're good to go.
Chris.
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Post by Penguin45 on Aug 3, 2014 16:03:12 GMT
Drove down to Cornwall yesterday, via Shepton Mallet, so it was 399.7 miles when we landed. Gruesome journey - I was on the road a 6.10am and landed at Widemouth Bay at 4.25pm. Ghastly....... 33pmg though, which is fairly respectable.
She was juddering and jolting a bit at the end of the journey, so had a look today and found that the retaining screw for the condenser earth cable /base plate lock had disappeared, allowing the points to close up and the cable to flap about. No wonder she was running a bit rough! Anyway, new screw found and inserted. No water used and half a pint of oil added sees her back in rude health.
Sun's out, kids are surfing on the beach and I've got my feet up. Perfect.
Chris.
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Post by Nick RS on Aug 3, 2014 20:26:13 GMT
Kernow a’gas dynergh as they say down there.
Glad you made it, quite a journey. Enjoy the holiday.
Nick
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