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DFD702K.
Oct 4, 2018 14:17:23 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 4, 2018 14:17:23 GMT
I know it's not timing since I haven't touched or been within 2 feet of anything related to that. It's already got a fuel filter & under bonnet new lines so it isn't that - the only thing it can be is that it's running lean because it's getting more air into it, nothing else has been touched or changed - the problem is it's only acting up when it's warmed up and running at speed and I don't feel confident mucking about with the jet blind on the side of the road - trying to get it a little richer with shaky hands and only the faintest clue what I'm doing. The annoying part is the idle hasn't changed so I'm worried I've inadvertently knocked the jet or something because of that utterly stupid filter can thing - but I can't believe it's *that* fragile & the slightest touch would knock it out of true.. As it is today I'm done with it for the moment - I just had x-ray on knee & everything is hurting - and I've been lying down most of the day. I have a local garage that could look at it and at least get it back to its previous semi knackered state - and if I'd got what was actually advertised I'd feel a lot better about it but there's a lot of family hassle going to start over this heap soon over and above trying to fix major problems that weren't mentioned or went unnoticed. I specifically bought this car because it was advertised as having a "new" engine - technically it does, only not really when it's been in there since 1983 when I was 12/13 years old. As it is I'm not going to be doing anything on it for a few days - I tore my hands up pretty good & pulled or hurt every muscle north of my hips trying to get that filter replaced & back in. I'm going to end up buying a pancake filter for more money. Can you tell I'm not happy?
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Post by andrewa on Oct 4, 2018 14:57:59 GMT
Reminds me of a Mini Van I was "given" by father in law - who then decided he wanted a £400 hedge cutter as a thank you....van was as good as gold, never let him down etc. Two subframes later, extensive welding, respray, retrim, replacement engine and gearbox, new chrome work etc etc it was good as gold. When he saw it after all the work he made some comment about how he knew it'd come up nice with a good clean bless him. Sold it for £2.5 k and thought I'd done well...worth a lot more now ... "Invested" proceeds in an Austin 3 Litre which was good as gold...ish - apart from 2 steering racks, exhaust, wheel bearings etc etc. Cheers A
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DFD702K.
Oct 10, 2018 14:57:28 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 10, 2018 14:57:28 GMT
Well, I've partially solved the problem.
The fix involved looking carefully at that accursed filter can and figuring out why it wasn't fitting properly. Turns out the bolt guide (or half of it) goes *inside* the can with the rubber & some hot glue (it ain't gonna move, trust me on this). And oddly the can refused to seal again - took it for a run - and it seems to have vibrated/heated itself into place.
Took the car out for a quick squirt up the A12 and it's definitely quicker & more responsive but still running a bit lean on throttle. Having the intake horn in the airflow definitely makes a difference, runs cooler and this *might* be the reason for the lean at speed - more air than the mixture setting can handle..
The question is: do I take it down the garage quickly & have them richen the mixture a bit and leave it as is with the filter can in place until it needs a change? Or do I have them replace the whole thing with the pancake filter and be done with it?
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DFD702K.
Oct 11, 2018 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 11, 2018 18:20:04 GMT
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DFD702K.
Oct 13, 2018 14:59:37 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 13, 2018 14:59:37 GMT
Have booked in for mixture adjustment, new brake pads & the oil bypass replacement kit to be fitted, Tuesday 23rd. Had a look at the jet adjustment & where it is I'd rather leave it alone. I think I know what to do but I'm not taking the risk of busting something I really *can't* fix.
Odd creaking from drivers side front suspension - will have to be looked at - might be to do with the adjustment.
Filter modification has really quieted car down and quite large bits are collecting in there, which makes me wonder about the front carb on MGB and the like pulling in stuff that a foam filter can't manage. It might be possible to do this heater mod for midgets and the like too by cutting a disc of HEPA paper and fitting just before the fan in the box assembly on bulkhead.
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DFD702K.
Oct 22, 2018 21:47:37 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 22, 2018 21:47:37 GMT
A new upgrade.
I noticed that moving the intake from by the exhaust to in the airstream abaft the rocker cover improved performance (bar the need to richen the mixture, which is being done tomorrow). So I wondered whether installing a ram air intake/helmholtz resonator would provide any improvements on the short intake trumpet of the filter can. As far as I can tell the answer is a pretty resounding yes. Between 0-60mph the car is definitely more lively - to the extent I've had to hit the brakes a couple of times because it's been going a little faster than I thought. The long intake does quiet the engine down some especially at higher speeds. This will work on the Wolseley 18/85 II and possibly the 6 but since I've not seen one in the flesh I don't know. The Morris & Austin cars will require a different method.
Parts required:
2 x SU HS6 intake bellmouths or short intake trumpets 2 x 8mm/9mm nuts and bolts. 1 x 75cm long 50mm internal diameter spring steel supported plastic pipe (temperature resistant +90c) Automotive grade double sided tape Sandpaper (various grades).
This assumes you still have the oem airbox fitted.
Take one of the bellmouths and sand the inside of same until as smooth as possible. This will be the intake side. Take the other and if you have time do the same. Take the second bellmouth and tape around the outside diameter of the port - do *not* remove the protective plastic on the outside at this point. Run the pipe from the tip of the trumpet down to the left by the battery - across the front of the motor behind the shield and work out the required length. The pipe can be carefully twisted onto the trumpet (like a nut onto a bolt) when it's fitted. At one end fit the taped bellmouth into the pipe with the ends of the tape away from the cut end of the wire (it'll make sense when you do it) - and the pull the protection tape off as you secure it. *leave it to cure/set for a while.* Go back to the car and connect the air box end to the intake trumpet (using the screw on method) and route the pipe across to the lhs of the grille around the back of the shield, via the battery side engine mounting space. Take the bolts and feed them through the taped bellmouths outer mount holes and out through the relevant spaces in the grille. Feed the polished bellmouth onto the bolts and add the nuts - tightening (gently) so the two bellmouths clamp the uprights of the grille securely.
What you now have is a long branch intake manifold - and Helmholtz resonator - using the same idea as modern cars and the Chrysler Sonoramic Commando engine (although in that case the set up is a little different). The intake will be ~36" long and the pressure waves will be set up by the ram air effect (in the SC it was the bounce off the valves/carb butterflies).
As best as I can find out - the effects of a 36" intake should be between 2400-3000rpm - or the lower middle rpm. This makes sense because this seems to correspond to the effect it has on a short test drive - 35-60mph in top. The rule is that a longer intake gives an effect at lower rpm and vice versa.
I'll know more when the garage have sorted the weak acceleration mixture issue (90% sure this is because it was previously tuned with a badly blocked air filter).
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Post by dave1800 on Oct 23, 2018 1:41:45 GMT
Have you taken the siamese inlet port into consideration it has considerable effects on the effect of the optimisation of the length and shape of the inlet manifold. Remember anything that changes the airflow may require a carb needle to be reprofiled, not only a turn of a few flats on the jet adjustment nut. There is a good article on the siamese port hereDavid
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DFD702K.
Oct 23, 2018 13:13:46 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 23, 2018 13:13:46 GMT
Have you taken the siamese inlet port into consideration it has considerable effects on the effect of the optimisation of the length and shape of the inlet manifold. Remember anything that changes the airflow may require a carb needle to be reprofiled, not only a turn of a few flats on the jet adjustment nut. There is a good article on the siamese port hereDavid As I understand the theory in this case I'm tuning the intake from the port on the radiator grille to the butterfly on the carburettor. In the case of an EFI car it's tuned from the throttle plate to the back of the valve (in the case of the Hyundai Alpha engine therefore there are two levels of resonator - an odd snail shell curve intake manifold (tuned from the valves to the throttle plate) and a long intake tract tuned (badly) from the intake to the plate - which I would think gives a hybrid of the two (like the later 30/15 split Sonoramic intakes). With the siamesed ports because they're upstream of the carb butterfly I don't know the effect they'd have here - if any - but they'd definitely have an effect on the EFI Mini for example... The gent at the garage has richened the mix by "two turns" - whether that means two flats or two whole turns I don't know but I'd suspect the former, he's probably able to tune these by ear (being as there's two MGB, an Audax Alpine & a Vauxhall Viva in the place but it was actually running lean at idle on choke this morning! And he managed to find the oil relief valve - it'd migrated - but it's *horrible* to get at, and the valve cup has a habit of sticking.. Thanks for the article I'll have a look.
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Post by dave1800 on Oct 24, 2018 2:23:30 GMT
I have found an old photo of your car's engine bay, as fitted with the MOD engine. Looking at the angle of the vacuum unit on the distributor these normally point to around 1 o'clock. In the photo I have seen it seems closer to 2-3 o'clock. This suggests to me that either the ignition timing is significantly wrong or the phasing of the rotor arm to the distributor cap is out as a result of the timing chain not being properly aligned.
Before adjusting the mixture it is important to check the timing and tappets first. Once these are correct and any air leaks resolved the mixture can be set using the piston lift method described in the w/s manuals.
If you can post a current photo of your engine bay, we may be able to ascertain whether the distributor looks around right, I have no idea how long ago the pics I have were taken. As far as the intake tuning goes, if you rearrange the firing order, 1,3,4,2 to 2,1,3,4 and look at the siamese inlet port 2,1 then as the engine rotates it will see suck, suck, nothing, nothing, suck, suck etc whereas for an engine with separate inlet ports each will see an evenly spaced "suck". That makes effectively tuning the inlet very complex as it creates a considerable level of pulsing.
This has a knock on effect for fuel injecting these engines. A single injector can replace the carb as has been described by a member here who has converted his crab but still suffers from the uneven air fuel mixture between inner and outer cylinders. The classic Mini was finally fitted with MPI but had a unique specially programmed ECU to try and compensate for the differing fuelling requirements of the inner and outer cylinders but did nothing as far as I know about trying to actively compensate for the different volume of air. The effect of the siamese inlet ports becomes worse as hotter cams with more overlap are used.
David
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DFD702K.
Oct 24, 2018 9:25:45 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 24, 2018 9:25:45 GMT
The vacuum block is inline with the motor block with the output pointing to the right looking towards the back of the car. Isn't it possible to tune the points etc independently of the dizzy position? If it was that far out of tune I'd be amazed if it even started let alone ran well enough to average 25mpg for relatively short journeys. But I'm nowhere near an expert on these things. I've already looked at the info on the siamesed ports and it explains perfectly the Wolseleys behaviour on choked idle yesterday - it sounded like it was firing perfectly on two and barely at all on the other two - which makes perfect sense if one port of the pair is getting 63% of the mixture and the other gets the rest. Will have to see what happens I guess but they've managed to get the oil relief valve replaced.
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DFD702K.
Oct 24, 2018 9:39:02 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 24, 2018 9:39:02 GMT
PS: does anyone know if the Princess brake pads have thicker or thinner locking bars for the calipers? Apparently the brake pads I bought are wrong for the 18/85 because they don't fit and the locking studs are much wider than the holes in the caliper, so they won't go through. Garage are ordering the correct ones but just a little concerned someone has kitbashed a different caliper on there or something (so what I got is right but the car has the wrong ones fitted). Is it possible this cars been upgraded with the 3 pot 's' calipers?
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Post by dave1800 on Oct 24, 2018 12:11:52 GMT
The points should be set to 0.015" gap before doing any further checks. If you widen the gap it advances the timing and may lead to misfiring. A closed up gap retards the ignition and will again eventually lead to a misfire. I would strongly advise that you check the ignition timing as this is straight forward. The position of your distributor looks wrong. If you have a timing light that is preferable. The MOD cars often used lower compression engines so if you can read and post the engine number we can probably give you a static and stroboscopic reading. Without a timing light you can check when the points open with a meter or even a 12v bulb in series with the ignition coil and check the timing marks. They may be on top of the timing cover or underneath and there is a notch in the crankshaft pulley to show the alignment. Best thing is to report back here first - there have been instances where an early pulley intended for the bottom timing indicator has been fitted to a later engine with the top timing indicator and vice versa. As a quick guide irrespective of the engine you should have a static timing of between 12degrees BTDC( HC) and 17 degrees BTDC (LC engine). These engines can run with way out ignition timing, but not well or safely. The fuelling difference on a standard cam between the inner and outer cylinders at idle isn't anything like 63/37% it's much better matched and so shouldn't be causing a 2 cylinder misfire. Good luck David The vacuum block is inline with the motor block with the output pointing to the right looking towards the back of the car. Isn't it possible to tune the points etc independently of the dizzy position? If it was that far out of tune I'd be amazed if it even started let alone ran well enough to average 25mpg for relatively short journeys. But I'm nowhere near an expert on these things. I've already looked at the info on the siamesed ports and it explains perfectly the Wolseleys behaviour on choked idle yesterday - it sounded like it was firing perfectly on two and barely at all on the other two - which makes perfect sense if one port of the pair is getting 63% of the mixture and the other gets the rest. Will have to see what happens I guess but they've managed to get the oil relief valve replaced.
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DFD702K.
Oct 24, 2018 19:44:24 GMT
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Post by rosieuk on Oct 24, 2018 19:44:24 GMT
The points should be set to 0.015" gap before doing any further checks. If you widen the gap it advances the timing and may lead to misfiring. A closed up gap retards the ignition and will again eventually lead to a misfire. I would strongly advise that you check the ignition timing as this is straight forward. The position of your distributor looks wrong. If you have a timing light that is preferable. The MOD cars often used lower compression engines so if you can read and post the engine number we can probably give you a static and stroboscopic reading. Without a timing light you can check when the points open with a meter or even a 12v bulb in series with the ignition coil and check the timing marks. They may be on top of the timing cover or underneath and there is a notch in the crankshaft pulley to show the alignment. Best thing is to report back here first - there have been instances where an early pulley intended for the bottom timing indicator has been fitted to a later engine with the top timing indicator and vice versa. As a quick guide irrespective of the engine you should have a static timing of between 12degrees BTDC( HC) and 17 degrees BTDC (LC engine). These engines can run with way out ignition timing, but not well or safely. The fuelling difference on a standard cam between the inner and outer cylinders at idle isn't anything like 63/37% it's much better matched and so shouldn't be causing a 2 cylinder misfire. Good luck David The vacuum block is inline with the motor block with the output pointing to the right looking towards the back of the car. Isn't it possible to tune the points etc independently of the dizzy position? If it was that far out of tune I'd be amazed if it even started let alone ran well enough to average 25mpg for relatively short journeys. But I'm nowhere near an expert on these things. I've already looked at the info on the siamesed ports and it explains perfectly the Wolseleys behaviour on choked idle yesterday - it sounded like it was firing perfectly on two and barely at all on the other two - which makes perfect sense if one port of the pair is getting 63% of the mixture and the other gets the rest. Will have to see what happens I guess but they've managed to get the oil relief valve replaced. The cause of the lean mixture is already known. The fact that someone tuned the car with a air filter on it that was almost blocked solid and hadn't been replaced in years. The car was much better (plus a little choke) than before and actually managed 26.3mpg compared to 24mpg with the blocked filter (most of the time with the engine slightly on choke). The 63/37 figure is off an article about what happens when you try and run a siamesed port engine off an EFI system at high rpm because one cylinder of the pair in a 1342 firing order gets a big dose of fuel and the other doesn't - cured either by the clever siamesed programming in the EFI Mini - or resetting to a different firing order so that the pairs are separated (1324). It won't be that high at idle but with the splitfire ignition and a cold engine - it didn't make for a happy Wolseley yesterday morning.. Especially after less than a mile, why is it when you want a traffic jam so it'll warm up - it's as empty as after a zombie apocalypse? The car is hitting the manufacturer mpg, in fact marginally better - it's performing as it should - it sounds perfectly fine - I'm familiar with the motor from the MGB. I've learned from bitter experience - if it ain't broke don't fix it. I'm not arguing that the way DFD is set up is odd but it did a 300 mile journey at motorway speeds and returned 34mpg on saggy suspension and knackered tyres (with a leaking fuel line) and still felt as good as a modern car - and I've done the best part of 900 miles since. I will probably end up replacing the bi-met flasher unit though - it seems to take almost as much juice to use that as it does to turn the engine over. I'm also doing an experiment - the Rio/Accent oddly enough have almost exactly the same transmission & fd ratio as the Wolseley - so I'm driving the Kia using 1-4 - and will see what the fuel consumption is on the tank compared to the Wolseley - I've a feeling that there might not be as big a difference as people might expect. Took Priscus to the vet today - and he really shocked me - was talking to the vet and Priscus climbed up my arm and sat on my shoulders as if he did that every day. I've owned that lizard for 4 years and he's never climbed up on me - usually doesn't even like being held. He's a 5kg 4ft long animal so that was quite an experience. Hopefully the Wolseley will be ready tomorrow. When it is I'll report back on how it's running. Incidentally - the garage said brake pads were heated into the calipers and I noticed that the wheels this car has are entirely solid (no air vents like a Cortina wheel for example) - are these the standard spec rims or should it have vented rims? I've never seen a solid un vented wheel except for the Lotus racers and they had brake heating problems too.
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Post by dave1800 on Oct 24, 2018 23:52:53 GMT
If you read the crab road tests one of the things many mentioned was the almost total lack of brake fade even after a number of crash tests from 60mh and,yes, the normal steel wheels are solid. While I agree with the philosophy if it ain't broke....I also believe in checking things that people point out to me as possibly being wrong before it does break! I would be interested to see a link to how to set to a different firing order 1,3,2,4 I thought that could only be done by a complete change on the crankshaft and camshaft design. The MPI Mini simply compensated the fuelling - unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any details published of the level of compensation needed at different rpm and load settings and the recommendation for modifying a Mini MPI is to change back to SU carbs! I am curious about the Splitfire ignition you have fitted, I believe this was the one that combined CDI and switched inductance charge, but can't seem to find any details of the distributor models anywhere nowadays, only direct ignition, and reference to Splifire spark plugs. Maybe your lizard was spooked by the vet, some animals seem to behave strangely even on the way to the surgery. David
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Post by dave1800 on Oct 25, 2018 10:59:02 GMT
The flasher unit is VERY sensitive to voltage. I believe this is why you had dim headlamps - using LEDs just masks the problem. Changing the flasher unit won't help if this is the case unless you get an electronic version with switching speed constant irrespective of load. It may just be that your dynamo isn't giving out enough power at idle to drive the electrics or poor connections /wiring as described in my earlier post or a combination. I still believe it's worth checking the wiring. I note there was an article about your car in one of the classic car mags where you were concerned, quite rightly about fuel leaking onto the block and igniting. Weak electric wires and connectors have resistance which means heat, I don't need to say more . I used to own your car in the 1970s and drove it for several years averaging around 20,000 miles each year. It had a hard life, all weathers, long journeys on motorways and cross country at speeds that would be unrecognisable on UK roads today. It never overheated the brakes or engine. It would rev to 6,000rpm and reach the magic number on the speedo. With a little care it can be made into a reliable vehicle again and by planning the maintenance dealing with any safety issues first you should be able to enjoy it. It would be good if you could find a local mechanic who can sort out the engine tuning in the proper order and make it that much nicer to drive. I understand there is another crab owner in Colchester, maybe someone here on the forum knows where? David
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