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Post by tommydp on Apr 7, 2011 6:46:16 GMT
Thanks a lot for all your help. I've had a look at that article before,it's interesting.
Well, I believe I have a ignition or fuel issue.. But how hard can it be? The mechanics are so straightforward. I agree, in my experience they all have had smooth idle. I just don't get it when it comes to this one. I'm absolutely sure carb, breather and distributor is ok. Believe me, I've changed everything,several times. The only thing that hasn't been tried changed is the fuel tank! However it's clean. No dirt etc in pump filter. Have tried electrical pump at tank as well as different mech pumps. Tried various coils. Original non ballasted and ballasted with correct resistance wiring from a Marina.
What gets me, the coil tends to become hot, not very hot though. My Marina will idle for ever, coil remains ice cold.
Breather is fine, still problem when detached and intake pipe, or breather valve as mounted earlier is blocked.
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Post by tommydp on Apr 6, 2011 21:54:57 GMT
Well, spent some time this evening checking everything "obvious". Tried a good coil, blanked off brake booster, blanked off carb pipe for breather, put in another dizzy (for MGB, cheap ebay repro but..) Checked earth strap, charging, checked petrol pump and cleaned filter, tried another float and needle, replaced LT and HT leads, checked wiring. No difference at idle, still pressure in exhaust, spitting, hunting, stalling.
I'm tempted to demand that the company makes arrangements for changing cam to a standard one. But where to get one?
On the other hand I'm uncertain, for two reasons:
1. It wouldn't be a drawback with this engine, if I finally find what it needs to run smoothly and find the correct adjustments. I'm tempted to try out a twin carb arrangement and perhaps invest in a 123distributor, after all this old heap has cost me a fortune allready.
2. I'm getting confused about this car.. It scares me that the new engine is acting a bit like the previous one, except this one's not burning oil. The other one did, but compression and valves/ seals were fine.. Have I overlooked something fundamentally wrong? I was never able to tune the other engine either.. I mean, I've had plenty cars with A and B series engines, I've allways managed smooth idle and good performance with simple work. I've set the ignition static and screwed the jet nut up and down, lifted the carb piston and easily found the correct raise and fall spot for correct mixture. This one, and the other engine seems to run weakly no matter what, idle drops when lifting the piston. Also, on both engines idle drops when I open the oil filler cap. Both with diaphragm valve and crankcase breather by carb.
Also, on this one as well as the other engine, when I put my hand on the oil filler hole it sucks a lot, when breather is attached to carb pipe. I dont remember previous 1800s doing that, neither did they smell oil fumes from the exhaust like now, and on the previous engine. And then the vacuum port at the carb, for the dizzy advance. When I put my finger on it, there's vacuum at idle. You can hear a hiss at idle there. Also, the last engine had a thirst for petrol, no matter how i tuned it. I had a see through petrol filter, and it would be completely full. On earlier Crabs, Marinas etc you could hardly see the petrol in the filter, and they would run sweetly in all conditions.
Well, who knows? I'm fed up:-/ Better put it away for a while, but i guess you know the feeling: you just can't get it off your mind when it's not working as it should:-)
Tommy
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Post by tommydp on Apr 6, 2011 10:08:34 GMT
Spoke to the rebuilders now. They are awaiting exact details of the cam, but they confirm it's a hotter cam. They are willing to change the cam, if it's not to my satisfaction. However I'm not interested in taking the lump out again, as I specified this was an ordinary 1800 and would a hotter cam work? They don't have workshop for such only taking in ready to rebuild engines. He would look into arrangements for taking engine out, though.
So what to do? I'm not sure. Have not checked valve lift yet.
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Post by tommydp on Apr 6, 2011 6:36:31 GMT
Thanks! The throttle disc does not have the spring loaded valve. Vacuum is from the air filter side, like UK cars. It seems to suck there at idle, idle is a bit high. I mean if I screw the idle screw in too much, it will give suction at idle? There is no sound of pinking/ knocking/ detonation. It wil hesitate a bit when going downhill at speed, foot off the accelerater pedal and its a bit rough at about 70 kmh. Otherwise fine. Could I harm the engine as long as it sounds fine?
The carb is a later type hs 6 with the breather pipe for the crankcase breather. I've removed the valve on the inlet manifold and blanked off the hole.
Seems I have a tuning issue, reminds me of trouble I've had with the previous engine. But what am I doing wrong?
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 22:13:11 GMT
I remember this one advertised for sale in Denmark some months ago! There were more pictures. They were asking for 8000 pounds for it:-) LOL!
It appeared to be a mixed up car for sure, and in bad shape, rust in sills etc.. There was something wrong with the interior, but can't remember what. The funniest thing, though: the rear wings were mk 2 Austin Morris!! Yes, standing rear lights:-) So, was this an Austin or Morris with a Wolseley front stuck on? Or the other way around?
By the way, did you know the 1800 was badged as Morris Monaco and Austin Windsor in Denmark? The Mini was called Mascot, the 11- 1300 was called Marina, before the real Marina arrived! Yes, it's true:-)
BMC/ BL cars were very common in Denmark. I believe it had something to do with trade deals.
Dad tells about how amazed they were by all the BL cars down there in the seventies, and I remember seeing plenty Marinas, 1100s, Maxis and a few crabs, when we went there on holidays in the 80s and even 90s:-)
Tommy:-)
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 20:58:57 GMT
Hi all! I'm happy to say that your Norwegian friend is a bit more optimistic now. I adjusted ignition and mixture for best idle, still hunting and spitting, and quite a lot of pressure from the exhaust, though not as bad as yesterday. Fast idle smooth, only occasional spitting.
Took it for a ride, filled her up. Still fabulous on road, a few misfires on steady speed. Went to my uncle, who has spent most of his life working on cars:-) He even worked at the Leyland- dealer once. When I arrived it wasn't that bad. Uncle, amazed by the sight of fresh BMC engine green again, investigated and said he wouldn't worry to much, there was nothing seriously wrong and he also found it to run beautifully at higher rpm.
However, he believed the engine could need some running in as it could be somewhat "tight". He advised me to run it for a while, before further investigation and let the engine "smooth out". Also, the rebore would give a different sound of course.. He doubted different carb set up or dizzy would make a difference.
Well, I'm not sure but his theory seems to make sense.. I took it for a longer drive, and I must say it seems to be getting better allready , there's far less pressure from the exhaust and the idle is far more steady only a bit of spitting now and then. It settles steady after revving, yesterday it would stall. Well, I think I'll just run it carefully and see how things turn out. Plugs are fine, biscuit brown:-) Dizzy, Lucas 25d, 41234, set at 10 deg statically. Will return with further info:-)
Thanks for all your help so far, all of you!
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 14:57:44 GMT
I've searced for air leaks. Can't find any. Carb is totally new, used a bit on the old engine. No such problems then..
Didn't hear from the reconditioner before they closed. Calling them tomorrow, using my strict teacher voice. I'm almost certain though, the cam is to MGB spec and engine timed correctly for an MGB. Everything seems right. Valves on number one cylinder closed when on tdc of firing on that cylinder. Valves on number four cylinder changing at this point and so on..
If confirmed as an MGB cam, I guess I have to look into advance curves and various distributors then. I had a distributor for a Marina TC once, but sold it:-( Only have for mk 1 and 2 1800 now. Strange if the dizzy will make so much difference at slow idle, but who knows? Thought it would make more difference at speed.
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 13:53:06 GMT
I doubt it's the petrol. When I have petrol that is starting to go stale in a car, they'll usually idle well, but will not produce any power at all. Is the vacuum link for the distributor at the carb or on the manifold? If on the manifold this will add nearly the full vacuum advance on idle, but not have any effect otherwise. But in most cases this will make the car idle faster, yet more difficult to start. Worth checking though. And a worn carb throttle spindle can have the same effect, as the mixture is mostly affected on idle, while the car will be running perfect off idle. Regards, Alexander Thanks! I thought of condensation in the fuel tank, temperatures have been below zero while car has been standing. But then it would most likely miss on the road as well. Vacuum is from the carb. Carb is new, used a bit on the old engine. Worked fine. A bit concerned about the carb setting, at some point there is a lot of suction at the dizzy vacuum line at idle, as well as the crank breather pipe at the carb.. I usuallly screw the mixture nut two rounds down from jet level with the bridge, as a starting point then adjust the idle screw. Static ignition timing set to 10 degrees btdc.
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 13:07:32 GMT
Just a thought. How old is the petrol in the tank ? I have no idea how long it has been off the road. If a few months it may be worth topping up with fresh fuel It has crossed my mind.. It has only been standing for about three weeks though, but temperatures have varied a lot. I'll fill it up today. A bit worried about driving it though, afraid something will go wrong.. However, its like a sewing machine above 1000 rpm and when driving..
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 12:58:12 GMT
Thank you all for your great help so far. I really appreciate it, desperate as I am due to this problem. I'm awaiting details from the workshop regarding type of cam etc. It seems they have fitted an MGB cam and timed accordingly. The cam didn't have the bush for the mechanical fuel pump, so they fitted the bush from the old cam. They are really experienced, one of the leading reconditioners in Norway. I return with details as soon as I hear from them.
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 11:27:02 GMT
I'm using the original 1800 distributor (41234). I've also tried one of the cheap ones available for MGBs on Ebay. Same problem with both..
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 6:28:02 GMT
Thank you very much, David! I agree, I'm almost certain it has something to do with the cam and valve timing. I have no idea what cam they have fitted, I'm calling them today for specifications.
The obvious difference I can see, from an ordinary 1800, is that number one inlet valve now opens at about 15 - 20 degrees before top dead centre, while it should be 5 degrees on an ordinary one. I've checked it with valve clearance opened up to 0.020' as the manual says. The manual doesn't say anything else about valve timing, only that "it should open at 5 degrees, then timing for all other valves will be ok. When satisfied, adjust the clearance back to original" Well, I'm not satisfied!! :-)so I'm a bit stranded here..
I mean, how can I alter the valve timing? I only know how to set the clearances:-) I have to remove the timing cover then,and adjust there, even though the marks line up?
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Post by tommydp on Apr 5, 2011 5:20:47 GMT
Thanks, Chris! So you took a standard 1800 manifold, and cut the inlet/ carb part off? What a brilliant idea! I have inlet manifold and twin HS 4 from a Marina TC:-) However, I can't help thinking something else causes the trouble. I mean, you could make an MGB engine idle smoothly with one carb as well? It reminds me of the idle when i once adjusted the valves too tight. Adjustment is fine now, at least not too tight. There are no air leaks.
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Post by tommydp on Apr 4, 2011 20:37:33 GMT
Hi, thanks! Thought of the needle, but who knows which? Latest discovery is that idle drops a lot when removing plug leads on cylinder one and four, does not drop that much when removing leads on cylinder two and three.. Plugs are fine, those on two and three are lighter than those on one and four though..
Well, this thing is driving me crazy! I've spent a fortune rebuilding this engine and didn't expect struggle with misfire now. Well, at least it doesn't burn oil:-)
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Post by tommydp on Apr 4, 2011 18:55:08 GMT
Hi all! Well, here's a difficult one..
I've installed my reconditioned engine into the crab. The block was reconditioned by proffesional engine rebuilders. On the road, the car is fabulous, it pulls like a train and you can barely hear the engine. There are no leaks etc, I've even managed to get the gear cables leak free:-) I've also put in the original gearbox, rather than the Princess one, which made too much stress on the driveshafts making the front end very stiff. It's now nice and bouncy again! Lesson learnt: NEVER fit an 1800 Princess box into an 1800 with original driveshafts. So all is well, but there is one major problem:
It won't idle smoothly, no matter how I tune it. As said, on the road all is well, it's silky smooth. It also runs fine at (very) fast idle. Below 1000 rpm it will spit, stall and runs roughly. All ignition and fuel issues double- checked, at least..
The engine has been bored to 0.060 oversize. It has obviously been fitted with a more sporty MGB cam and timed accordingly. Inlet valve opens at about 16 degrees btdc (like an MGB), while the 1800 should open at 5 degrees! Timing chain has been installed spot on. Well, an MGB spec engine is great, but I need smooth idle!! I suspected too high compression, because of skimming, but it's fine! 170 spot on, on all cylinders, like the manual says.
So, what to do? Do I need another cylinder head? I believe they are all interchangeable, or am I wrong?.. Do I need twin carbs, like the MGB? If so, I need an 1800 S manifold if someone has one:-)
Any help is more than welcome, I'm desperate... I'm calling the reconditioning company tomorrow anyway. Will post updates:-)
Tommy:-)
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