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Post by Nick RS on Apr 3, 2013 17:06:16 GMT
When I bought my car the previous owner gave me a part used bottle of Tetraboost which I have been adding to 97 grade super unleaded and the car runs fine. This is now coming to the end and I need to decide what to do next. Tetraboost is only available in bulk and I would have to buy enough to treat about 700 litres of petrol in one hit for about £140. I am not sure I want three years supply of lead hanging around in my garage. Tetraboost also claim that their latest product will also protect against Ethanol petrol up to E15 mix which. I am sure that Tetraboost is a good product but I am interested in the alternatives.
For those running cars without hardened valve inserts what if any additives do you use and how do you get on. I am sure this has been raised before though I couldn't see an obvious thread.
Nick
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Post by Penguin45 on Apr 3, 2013 17:51:55 GMT
I use the Castrol Valvemaster additive. There is an octane booster version of it available. It was one of the FBHVC approved additives, so it works.
My car runs like an absolute nail on Super, BTW.
Chris.
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Post by threelitre on Apr 4, 2013 2:04:58 GMT
If you have hardened valve seats you do not need any additive at all. On the 1800 S and 3litre I use super unleaded (not the 95 RON fuel), as they are noticeably happier with this and tend to pink on 95RON fuel. Actually the worst fuel I ever encountered in the 3litre was LRP while it was still available in the UK... On high octane unleaded they are all fine (and no problems with Ethanol - of there will ever be some).
If you do not have hardened valve seats, it depends on your annual mileage and driving style. My A-series engined Maestro has not seen any additives for at least 70k miles, but LPG has been used as fuel (worse than unleaded for the valves). But with regular checking the valves are still fine, although the exhaust valves have some recession. For the first 20k miles on unleaded (before LPG), the valves needed no adjustments at all. But I kept the engine under 3500rpm almost all of the time, thanks to a 5-speed gearbox.
So if your 1800 is no daily driver, you will most likely get away perfectly without ever using an additive. Maintaining the car to a good standard should be assumed though...
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by indianajones on Apr 4, 2013 4:56:49 GMT
Threelitre, what RON is super unleaded?
here in NZ RON 91 is the norm, and 95 and 98 are considered the 'super' types.
I used 91 in my car, I tried 95 once, but she didn't like it.
Back to the original post, I normally use Castrol Valvemaster, but have been trying another one my mechanic sells, seems all good so far.
Cheers,
-Andrew
PS I know it's been ages since I've posted! Been pretty busy lately.
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Post by nz3litre on Apr 4, 2013 7:00:36 GMT
Hello, Here is something I use.. Have used it in a Triumph 2.5 and Austin 3 litre engine (MGC) for decades and engines seemed happier... and while it may be mind over matter I have been happy with the unit. Monash University in Australia disagree..
LAB TEST OF FUELSTAR
Summary of University of Melbourne Report
"These tests have concluded that the Fuelstar petrol catalyst had no significant measurable effect on valve seat recession or knock-limited performance of the engine".
The unit is plumbed into the fuel line. I actually gave up on the additives early on. I do agree with comment from threelitre it seems likely you can get away without damage with BMC vehicles. I guess one day the engine will have to come apart and then we will know.
John.
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Post by threelitre on Apr 4, 2013 8:00:35 GMT
The standard unleaded petrol in the EU is 95RON (called Super in Germany, unleaded in most other countries). This will have an Ethanol part of up to 5%. Most petrol stations also sell a higher octane version. The most basic (super unleaded in the UK, Super Plus in Germany) is 97-98RON and easily matches on leaded fuel on our cars in my experience, there is also no Ethanol content. The downside is, that many chains sell this as their premium fuel, i.e. Shell Optimax with over 100RON here in Germany, commanding a hefty price.
My personal choice is non-premium high-octane unleaded. Since more than a decade all our cars run very well with it and apart from the high-revving 1300 automatic I never bothered with additives or having cylinder heads reworked without any need to do so.
Regards,
Alexander
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Post by Nick RS on Apr 4, 2013 20:44:21 GMT
Thanks for all the feedback which makes for interesting reading. In a few hundred miles time when the Tetraboost has gone I am going to try Castrol Valvemaster with the Octane boost and continue to use 97RON Super. Chris, ironically the previous owner reported the exact opposite symptoms to your car; mine apparently doesn't like 95RON so I haven't tried it. The current setup with I have indicates 99 equivalent so I'll start at that and maybe drop it back a bit at a time and see how the car runs. It will be gradual and won't start for a few weeks yet but I'll let you know how I get on. Alexander, If my car had the right size tyres and never got above 60MPH I would probably do what you do with your Maestro, as it is I am sure it hits 4000RPM quite often.
Incidently I did a quick cost up and at UK prices Valvemaster adds about 6p per litre while Millers and Tetraboost were just over 20p - big difference.
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Post by kelsham on Apr 5, 2013 7:53:57 GMT
I used Castrol Valvemaster for 30,000 miles. I suffered from valve recession after a 300 mile run to the North of England.
To be fair I was running cold, dodgy thermostat. Probably means mixture was running weak.
I then had hardened valve seats fitted.
Practical Classics ran a test on an in line fuel device. The valves recessed after hard Motorway driving.
Slow journeys will probably give little trouble.
For what it is worth I use Valvemaster in my 1932 aircooled BSA threewheeler, several thousand miles without trouble.
Hardened valve seats are always a possibility, run it till it fails, Valvemaster is as good as anything else.
Kels.
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Post by Nick RS on Jul 28, 2013 17:51:35 GMT
I've now been running on Valvemaster with an Octane boost added to 97RON fuel. So far no drop off in performance and the tendency to run-on has also stopped. I am pleased to report average MPG is over 30. Kels, I note what you say about valve recession and will just have to monitor it and see how it goes. I've a run to Yorkshire in a few weeks which unless I want to take the scenic route means about 100 miles on the M1 Motorway. I'll keep the revs down and probably slot in behind an HGV.
Nick
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Post by Penguin45 on Aug 1, 2013 0:00:22 GMT
The FBHVC did commission professional testing of lead substitute products some years back - Valvemaster and Tetraboost were two of the approved products after the testing process. I have used Castrol Valvemaster for some years before the Goldseal engine went in and can say that the head on the old engine had nice shiny even seats for the exhaust valves, with no signs of pitting, burning or recession.
Cruising down to Cornwall twice a year involves 300 mile of boring motorway driving, so I don't tend to hang about and it did no harm at all.
I think that you need to bear in mind that the old leaded fuels left deposits on the valves and seats. These will stay in place for a long time on engines which are treated gently and will only slowly burn away on engines which get some rather more vigorous use. Combined with an approved additive used correctly, valve recession shouldn't be an issue.
However - a hardened seat conversion by an engine shop will cost around £120 in the UK. The seats no longer fall out (This was largely a myth anyway) and it's a one-off fix. Valvemaster is currently £12.50 a bottle round here, so it doesn't take all that long to spend that much on lead substitute additive before having the head done makes sense.
Just don't be tempted to drop some musket balls in the tank on the off chance that they'll do the job!
And let's be honest, it's an hour to take the head off and an hour to put it back on again, so do the conversion. I will be in the autumn.
Nick - it's a 200 mile round trip - give it a good thrashing and enjoy yourself. It takes thousands of miles before a recession issue will arise.
Chris.
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Post by dave1800 on Aug 1, 2013 1:52:12 GMT
I have been trying to establish the current legislation regarding the implementation dates for E5 and E10 petroleum. E5 is already being sold, but I am unsure about E10. The latter poses a real issue for classic cars, damaging fuel pump diaphragms, carb floats and the pipelines. Additionally it can be a problem for cars laid up over winter as not only does the fuel volatility degrade so storage should be limited to 3 months in a sealed container but it can separate in the fuel tanks leading to corrosion - the life in a vented tank can be as little as 1 month! So the old recommendation of keeping the tank full to avoid corrosion now needs to be amended to emptying the tanks. A good article on the Moss website HERE As far as the lead memory effect that Chris mentioned that protects engines that have used leaded fuel, remember of course that this will be gone if valve seats have been reground. David |
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Post by dave1800 on Aug 1, 2013 1:54:30 GMT
I am sorry Officer but a Penguin instructed me to drive at 90mph  Nick - it's a 200 mile round trip - give it a good thrashing and enjoy yourself. It takes thousands of miles before a recession issue will arise. Chris. |
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Post by Penguin45 on Aug 1, 2013 10:23:31 GMT
I am sorry Officer but a Penguin instructed me to drive at 90mph That's going to be followed by, "Have we been drinking, Sir?" ;D ;D Chris. |
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Post by Nick RS on Aug 1, 2013 12:19:08 GMT
Didn't realise that getting hardened valves was around the cost you suggest Chris, no brainer for anyone who covers the miles. I'll carry on as normal and if it becomes necessary then I'll get it done. I cover less than 2,000 miles per year so I'm happy to use Valvemaster for now. It is possible that my car already has an unleaded head but as no records were kept by the one of the prior owners who carried out many of the mods, I can't be sure.
I'll be a bit braver than 60MPH though to be honest 70ish is my normal cruising rate with my modern car, built up from years of allowing plenty of travel time to get to meetings rather than being late.
I have my entry pass to the BL/BMC rally at Peterborough, so that is the plan for this Sunday if all goes well. I'll take a camera.
Nick
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Post by threelitre on Aug 1, 2013 16:49:17 GMT
My Austin Maestro (A-series, pre-unleaded model) has covered 120k miles, the last 70k have been done by me using pure unleaded for the first 20k, from then on LPG - all without further additives. 5ht gear keeps revs down a bit (between 3 and 4k on the motorway). I am going to change the head now, since the exhaust valves have worked about 1.5-2mm into the head, but they are still sealing well. So given the mileage of a classic car plus regular checking of valve clearances (done every 3-4k miles on my Maestro) will not see sudden trouble. I feel fairly sure that cars giving up with burnd valves just a few 100 miles after switching to unleaded had other problems as well and would not have lasted anyway. The only car getting additives regularly is the other half's VP 1300 auto, because it needs high revs everytime we hit the motorway, 3 litre, 1800 and Maxi don't.
Regards,
Alexander
Edit: Just noticed I keep repeating myself... Oops.
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