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Post by jeff on Apr 10, 2023 9:32:21 GMT
Hi all, Long time since I've been here, since having a new heart valve last June. Old one was damaged so the surgeons gave me a new one that had only been trialled on juvenile lambs..baah baaah. Well it fitted and seems to be fine.Anyhoo, I digress, sorry. The sun was out, it was warm yesterday so we took our mk1 Morris out of hibernation for a trot around the Northamptonshire countryside. Twenty quids worth of fresh dreaded E5 petrol and we were off. All was running fine for about an hour, then on the way home she just cut out after climbing a reasonable hill, in top gear. Rolling, about to stop on the level, she fired up again. No spluttering or jolting just cut out. A few miles further same happened again just after climbing a reasonable hill out of Greens Norton, again in top gear. Just about to come to a stop, and she fired up and ran fine. Once home. I pulled the fuel line from the carb and allowed the pump to half fill a clean jam jar. Not a spec of dirt to be seen, and the float chamber and needle valve was free and clean. The lack of spluttering and misfiring is leading me away from a fuel issue and towards electrics. The coil fitted is one of those gold coloured lucas things which I have read somewhere (mg forum I think) can play up. All other stuff like points, condenser, cap, leads, rotor arm were replaced last year from Tony Woods emporium. I did wonder if by climbing those hills in top gear but not labouring, might have disturbed the advance and retard wiring somehow,inside the distributor. It's too cold and wet today to go poking but I did wonder if other crabbers have experienced similar faults and found a less obvious cause. Don't you just hate intermittent faults  Kind regards to all Jeff. |
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Post by dave1800 on Apr 10, 2023 12:56:05 GMT
Hi Jeff
Good to hear your rebuild has been a success, now about the car!
A bit of a long shot but one of my crabs had a similar symptom many years ago. As with your car there was no spluttering and and it ran perfectly and restarted after a few minutes I suspected it was the coil. The coil was fine as far as primary and secondary resistance checks were concerned. Climbing hills in a high gear can put extra demand on the coil and may cause it to overheat or breakdown.
There would probably not have been any vacuum advance in your car while climbing the hills but it's always worth checking the integrity of the flexible lead inside the distributor through the range of the vacuum advance.
However, given well documented problems with modern replacement ignition components it could be any of them but they usually cause some form of misfire.
I think it's a good idea to keep a spare coil as substitution is the quickest and least frustrating way to try and identify the cause of this type of fault. Being intermittent, unless you can confirm a component, wire, switch or connector is the culprit you can of course never be certain.
Good luck
David
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Post by jeff on Apr 10, 2023 13:09:57 GMT
Thanks David,
I do have and old proper Lucas coil, from an 1100. I guess it would be of similar spec to the 1800 original. I'll give it a try.
What we're your findings when you had this problem?
Regards
Jeff
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Post by dave1800 on Apr 11, 2023 0:45:35 GMT
The 1100 used the same coil as the 1800. After I swopped coils the problem disappeared but I was unable to replicate the problem with the coil off the car. Connecting it to an oscilloscope it my have shown some evidence of shorted windings but I didn't try that. I could therefore never be 100% certain it was the issue but such is the nature of an intermittent fault. The coil is the most likely ignition component that can recover when it cools. David Thanks David, I do have and old proper Lucas coil, from an 1100. I guess it would be of similar spec to the 1800 original. I'll give it a try. What we're your findings when you had this problem? Regards Jeff |
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Post by andrewa on Apr 11, 2023 5:40:19 GMT
I’d second the coil as well ..had similar problem on a boat with a marinised Ford Anglia engine!
After long periods of running under load it’d just stop but unlike you it wouldn’t go again until it had cooled down. Thankfully we were on the non tidal Thames so could just pull over each time !
Do let us know how you get on.
Cheers Andrew
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Post by foglaursen on Apr 11, 2023 9:23:44 GMT
I don't know if you have electronic ignition. If so, that might well be the problem. Peter  |
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Post by jeff on Apr 11, 2023 15:19:06 GMT
Cheers guys,
I've dug out an old known good coil off an 1100. I'll give it a try but it will be a few days before I can try and see if that was the problem.
I've had a good look inside the dizzy, all seemed fine there except the base plate earth wire which might have been getting trapped down the gap. Still, I doubt that would cause a sudden cut out, unless the condenser was affected in some way. Just going to check the coil resistance old one and the suspect gold and green lucas affair.
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Post by jeff on Apr 11, 2023 18:22:31 GMT
Well now....
He who goes looking for trouble will surely find it.
As the rain swept in today, I retired from the gardening to the garage. I cleaned up this ancient HA12 ignition coil off an old 1100, checked its resistance which looked to be within tolerance, about 3ish ohms.
Having had a good look at the distributor innards, I didn't see anything amiss, so set about swapping the coils.
Some time ago I fitted a tacho and while I was there decided to remake the spade terminals on the coil. The error of my ways appeared as I was gently pulling off the spades.
The battery feed to the coil just fell apart. My previous work was unsatisfactory. As soon as I put a finger on the terminal the wire fell out of the spade connector along with half the plastic shroud.
I'd actually just crimped the insulating shroud, cracked it, and failed to crimp the wire into the spade. Oops!
So, having remade the connector properly, checked the rest of my handywork.
I'm surprised this didn't cause trouble before now, but I suppose with all the heat of the engine, last summer, and icy cold winter days in the garage, the bit of blue plastic gave up. And on a meaningful run yesterday the very feeble connection began to fail in the heat and vibration.
Once I'd sorted it out, the car started instantly and the tick over is now silky smooth compared to yesterday, when I noticed an occasional hiccup from the exhaust.
Fingers crossed, its now fixed.
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Post by dave1800 on Apr 12, 2023 0:37:41 GMT
Well done Jeff! It is good that you have found the definitive cause of the engine cutting out. You won't be the only one who's screwed up a spade connector crimp. Been there! Maybe worth keeping the other coil in the
boot along with other spare ignition bits?
David
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Post by Penguin45 on Apr 12, 2023 9:56:37 GMT
Well deduced. Always nice when it turns out to be something simple.
I would just add that I stopped using those red/blue/yellow crimps many years ago for both work and leisure as they proved to have very poor vibration qualities. I bought the correct crimping tool for the plain brass connectors and it has since paid for itself many times over. The connectors also look "right" on our cars.
Chris.
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Post by andrewa on Apr 12, 2023 17:47:59 GMT
Well done - a good result and little or no expense incurred!
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Post by dave1800 on Apr 14, 2023 4:34:23 GMT
Do you have any recommendations for a reliable inexpensive crimp tool? I imagine that for many it is something that may get very little use so will be tempted to making do with long nose pliers or similar to crimp a terminal when needed and this can be quite tricky. I have bought crimping cheap tools in the past that have been worse than useless. There is an ongoing debate about whether it is better to solder or crimp wires. As the wiring gets older and the copper tends to corrode and blacken, soldering may no longer be a reliable option. Ideally, of course, the wire should be replaced but this can be time consuming. Soldering also makes the wire rigid which makes it even more important that the insulation is crimped well to provide mechanical support and avoid fractures. My personal preference for low tension ignition leads is to crimp and solder if possible and use the original style clear soft pvc insulators. It is also important to make sure the terminals are a tight fit, squeezing them if necessary. Over the years I have found they have a tendency to become loose. David Well deduced. Always nice when it turns out to be something simple. I would just add that I stopped using those red/blue/yellow crimps many years ago for both work and leisure as they proved to have very poor vibration qualities. I bought the correct crimping tool for the plain brass connectors and it has since paid for itself many times over. The connectors also look "right" on our cars. Chris. |
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Post by jeff on Apr 16, 2023 12:17:53 GMT
Thanks very much all for your input.
The crimping tool I have is the scissor action affair with different size "sets" and coloured dots to identify which set to use for its respective coloured crimp. Horrible thing!
However I do have a ratchet type adjustable wire stripper which works well and avoids nicking the conductor (if its set up properly).
I bought a box of assorted spade connectors some time ago including the clear soft polythene shrouds off an online supplier.The product was disappointing as the spades were flimsy things, more use for radio repairs rather than automotive. Ho hum we live and learn.
This week I went belt and bracers and bought a waterproof coil boot as an extra precaution.
Next job will be to remove the fuel pump and check the filter and points. It doesn't appear to have ever been removed before. My wife, Yvonne, reminded me of having to rescue her, twice, once on the A43 dual carriageway, and once in Bedford Town centre, late at night, in my previous Austin 1800. She told me that the car just cut out without warning, and I gave the pump a good thump to get it going.
I'd forgotten all about that. Oops!
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