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Post by aussiesteve on Aug 10, 2017 12:52:59 GMT
Hi All,
I have acquired an old 1800 MkII manual that has been sitting on a property for about 15 years and I am not sure when it was last started or was running (might even have been that long ago). I am quickly trying to ascertain if the engine will turn over before I go too far with anything else. I have tried to have the engine crank over with the starter motor, but when you turn the key you get a "click", but that is it. Engine does not turn over. I have had the starter out and bench tested it and it spins ok without any problems. I have also looked at the solenoid and swapped that over with another unit which has the same end result. The battery is fine and I has plenty of charge (and a jump-starter attached to it) so plenty of electrical juice.
My question is what is the quickest and easiest way to see if the engine is not seized? I have tried turning the fan etc but the belt just keeps slipping. Can you put the car in 4th and push it to see if it will turn over? Do you need the plugs out? I had the front of the car jacked up so I put it in gear and turned the front passenger wheel around by hand (which it did) - does this turn the engine over?
Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Steve
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Post by dave1800 on Aug 10, 2017 13:04:03 GMT
I suggest taking out the plugs and squirting a few ccs of oil into the cylinders and letting it soak, then attach a socket on the crankshaft pulley nut and try turning it. You could try putting it into 4th gear and pushing it. If you want to try jacking the front of the car and turning a wheel you will need one wheel on the ground as the diff will allow one wheel to turn freely with both in the air.
Good luck!
David
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Post by aussiesteve on Aug 10, 2017 14:04:20 GMT
Thanks David,
Yeah, I had both wheels up - that might have been the problem then!
I have placed some Marvel Mystery Oil into each of the cylinders through the spark plug holes and have let that soak for a while already. Also tipped some in the filler cap of course.
Will give it a try over the weekend "up on one wheel" perhaps.
How hard is it to get to the crankshaft pulley nut with the radiator and everything still in?
Cheers
Steve
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Post by Penguin45 on Aug 10, 2017 17:15:47 GMT
Awkward! I can turn an engine by hand using the fan and applying pressure to the belt. I'm quite small and feeble.....  Chris. |
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Post by andrewa on Aug 10, 2017 17:31:51 GMT
Got this off the internet - might be some help - realise not all is applicable! Seems more oil/diesel, less brute force!
Usually there is a nut or bolt on the crank end that can be used to try and turn the engine but the danger of breaking it off means a safer alternative is to use a lever on the ring gear through the starter motor aperture. The engine will need to be out of gear,resist the temptation to force things quickly by using a socket and a long breaker bar,if the bolt breaks off it will be an added complication to extract the remains. If the engine seems to be seized solid,remove the spark plug holes and squirt or pour some releasing fluid like Plus Gas or diesel fuel in the plug holes trying to get as much as possible on the cylinder walls. Some people advocate the use of petrol and two stroke oil mixed or even petrol and ATF fluid.Thin oils like WD40 are really designed to chase off water,redex or thin penetrating oils can be used. Penetrating fluids take a while to have any effect .If possible fill the radiator or the block if the engine is not in a vehicle with some hot water,this will expand the block slightly.Whilst waiting it might be an idea to remove the rocker covers and air filters etc if they are still in place to see if corrosion is present deep inside the engine.It's possible the engine might now have some movement on the crankshaft ,if so try and turn it back and forth gradually building up to a full revolution,if not try again with the release fluid and hot water but if it resists any attempts to turn after a few more goes more work will be needed.
Good luck - don't follow my natural inclination which would be to tow it behind something and see what happens!
Cheers
Andrew
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Post by snoopy11 on Aug 10, 2017 19:26:31 GMT
Assuming the car has been dry stored I would try diesel through the plug holes and leave overnight with the plugs out.
Next day stick it in gear and gently rock the car back and forth to see if things have loosened off. Leave plugs out as it will be easier without the compression
Whatever method you try go slowly as the last thing you need is to break something or scratch a bore with a broken ring.
If things do free up don't try and start it straight away. Leave the plugs out and turn it over by hand several times to make sure everything is moving.
Then turn it over with the starter to get oil around
Only then put the plugs in and try to start.
Keep in mind that after all that time you may also have the clutch stuck to flywheel problems. Again this can be fixed easily but you will need it running first.
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Post by aussiesteve on Aug 11, 2017 1:09:18 GMT
Awkward! I can turn an engine by hand using the fan and applying pressure to the belt. I'm quite small and feeble..... Chris. Yeah, but is your belt over 15 years old? I am also a smaller and feebler individual than yourself!!  |
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Post by aussiesteve on Aug 11, 2017 1:17:58 GMT
....... Keep in mind that after all that time you may also have the clutch stuck to flywheel problems. Again this can be fixed easily but you will need it running first. Thanks Snoopy11, a question on the above. The master and slave clutch cylinders are bone dry at the moment as they profusely bleed fluid!- I have not vested anytime with these yet as I am just wanting to see if I can turn the engine over. It will select gears at the moment (with the engine not rotating of course). Would a "stuck flywheel/clutch" make it harder/impossible for the starter motor to turn it over? |
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Post by snoopy11 on Aug 11, 2017 6:41:44 GMT
....... Keep in mind that after all that time you may also have the clutch stuck to flywheel problems. Again this can be fixed easily but you will need it running first. Thanks Snoopy11, a question on the above. The master and slave clutch cylinders are bone dry at the moment as they profusely bleed fluid!- I have not vested anytime with these yet as I am just wanting to see if I can turn the engine over. It will select gears at the moment (with the engine not rotating of course). Would a "stuck flywheel/clutch" make it harder/impossible for the starter motor to turn it over? I wouldn't have thought so. The stuck clutch will prevent you from selecting gear when you get it running |
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Post by dave1800 on Aug 11, 2017 11:59:50 GMT
Agreed, a stuck clutch shouldn't make it hard to turn over if the g/box is in neutral. Unfortunately you are dealing with the unknown. If you find that it does turn over relatively easily then you need to consider whether to try and start it at this stage (very tempting of course!). At the very least some fresh oil and filter and a thorough flush first would be a good idea.
Remove the rocker box and turn the engine over by hand and watch the valves open and close smoothly without sticking. You may be able to get some idea of whether there is any electrolytic corrosion of the crank (hopefully unlikely) by taking off the tappet cover and rocker box, remove a tappet and push rod to see the condition of the cam face (mirrors, lights, twisted neck involved.)
Carefully check all hoses, with special attention to the fuel lines and drain the fuel tank and add some fresh fuel. Remove and replace the thermostat.
I would recommend attaching an oil pressure gauge if possible when you start the engine to confirm the condition of the bearings.
regards
David
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Post by 1800heap on Aug 11, 2017 22:10:49 GMT
Hi Steve
Good to hear another crab might be saved. The boys have given you some great tips to take before proceeding with attempting to start the engine. It might also be worth thinking about your aim for the vehicle. What you are looking to do with it I mean. If you really don't want to touch the engine and it is a make or break decision for the car, then take the advise and give it a go. If a full rebuild is on the cards for the car you may well save yourself considerable coin by stripping the engine and not starting it! For example if the cam is seized even if you get it to move before you start, it will likley be toast before it gets any oil!
As David says it is very tempting to attempt to start it but this may cost you money in the long run.
Regards
Nick
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