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Post by Penguin45 on Feb 3, 2016 1:17:10 GMT
I try not to do "think pieces". Generally, it's not what I'm good at and I end up either upsetting people, treading on toes, or not quite getting the message over as I would wish.
However.
This forum has been around for over five years now. We have a little over 180 members. This is fair enough, it's a "marque" or "special interest" forum, so it's never going to set the world on fire with its levels of activity. In addition, there is Tony's fantastic Oz site and regular newsletter, a Google Group and the Facebook group, plus, of course, the LOCI newsletter. In theory, there is plenty of information to be had and read. It saddens me enormously that the more I read into all the posts which are available on line, they are all written by perhaps thirty-odd people on a regular basis, with occasional comments from others. Given the total of surviving cars around the world, I wonder how they manage to survive? We don't know about most of them, 'cos no-one gets off their backside and says anything about them, so we assume that they're still out there doing the 'Crabby thing.
This particular forum is driven by the regular input of seven people, and I thank them. We have a few occasional contributors as well, and I thank them too. The fact that the forum stats show that we regulary have 50 - 60 readers a day who are not automated bots from the search engines show that there is interest in the cars, the forum and what we've written here. In one sense, it is rewarding and satisfying to think that a few of us can provide information, knowledge, perhaps a little humour, and pictures to our fellow 'Crabs owners. In another, it is immensely frustrating that we do it with no come-backs, acknowledgements or reponse on the forum at all most of the time.
It should be a two way street, chaps. If you can use your computer well enough to get here or to any of the other 'Crab places, you can interact. This is a very simple forum to use, in fact you can use Facebook if you're a complete idiot, but for heavens sake, say something. You could be a passing visitor who owned one in 1980 when the bottom fell out - tell us! It's interesting, it's history and history is what the human race is. Found out how to repair you clutch hydraulics? Say thanks. Whoever did the work, took the pictures, wrote the article and spent the time to put it up for your education might just get enough satisfaction to do another article.
I'm meant to be writing a Tech article about front wheel bearings at the moment. Dave1800 is going to do a more techy piece on the back of it. I've done the work, I just really cannot summon up the motivation to write it. I have a slew of pictures and it could be quite interesting and informative. However, in the back of my mind, there is the thought that all that work will be read, perhaps copied, acted upon or stored away for later without any sort of acknowledgment, so really, why the h@ll should I bother?
We're scattered far and wide, we 'Crab owners. There is a cluster of us here in the UK, next most numerous are the Ozzies; again scattered in a big place. Some round Europe and Scandinavia and the odd one or two across the pond in the Americas. All these information channels work better if people actually talk to each other. Give and take. Banter. Comradeship. Mutual support.
But I suspect that nothing will change and the worldwide readership will sit and wait for the wheelbearing article so that it can be absorbed without hitting the "Reply" icon.
I might write it next week. Maybe.
Chris.
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Post by tommydp on Feb 3, 2016 5:58:45 GMT
Well said, Chris!
Really something to think about for all members here. It's almost amazing there are not more questions and so on about the cars, with som many members here. Perhaps some of us are just very unlucky with the cars and like to write about it? LOL:-) I don't thinks that's the case, seriously, and would do my best to answer if there were more questions about the cars. Sadly, it's quite silent here for periods and the motivation for contribution can suffer from this of course. I think that has partly been the case for me as a contributor, too. But all credits to you regulars, who always reply and show enthusiasm. But we're asking for too much if we expect an internet forum to survive thanks to Chris, Dave an a few others!
If one doesn't hve a technical question, stories and pictures are always welcome as you point out. It doesn't cost anything to post and it doesn't have to take much time. I mean, if I post a picture, the short reply of "Great!" from someone could be all that's needed. It's a positive feedback and it makes me happy. It also keeps the forum active.
I agree with Chris, everyone should do their best to make this board more active and alive. Other forums make it, and so should we. A community like this must be essential to keep these old cars on the road, especially when you think of how the cars and their owners are spread across the world. Even more important as there is no internet activity worth mentioning via the club. I'm amazed there are Scandinavians here that have never written a line. If it's down to language problems I'm happy to help. It's bad enough that I know at least 10 Scandinavian enthusiasts and owners who are not here!
Keep up the good work Chris, and the handful regulars, it's appreciated! All others should start contributing now, to keep the forum alive.
I intend to post and reply more frequently too, in the future:-) It would be a shame if the forum just died, so everyone: Take action now!
Regards, Tommy
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Post by indianajones on Feb 3, 2016 8:36:21 GMT
Cheers for this thread Chris, it certainly provides some food for thought.
I'll be the first to put my hand up and admit my postings have dropped off a bit. This has mainly been due to the fact that since joining here, I've gained a wife and two children (the 45-50 hour weeks at work and part time study and house maintenance compound the situation further). For that I apologise, I should make a better effort (and for the LOCI mag).
So I tend to lurk a bit more than I tend to post these days, which is a side effect of me having less time to work on my 'crab, that said I am a little proud she's still in a road legal state!
Sometimes I do wonder how the future of the 'crab community is going to look like down the line and do have concerns about being able to access the knowledge that the older/more knowledgeable members have to share. As Chris has said, that knowledge is no good to the community as a whole if it is kept to yourself. Again, as Chris points out, classic cars are a community thing, too. It's about being able to just chat to people at shows, petrol stations, parking lots about our cars; To me it's the best part of the classic car scene - just meeting up with like minded people and talking cars (I chatted to a wedge fan for nearly an hour once).
My concern with the 'crabs, as a 'younger' member of the forum is what the future holds for these cars. Mechanics that work on these cars are starting to get thinner on the ground now, and it's going to be left to the community to keep these fine cars on the road, but we need the information and encouragement from the older generation, the people who brought new back in the 60s/70s, the people who worked for BMC/BL, the people who owned them as a first car back in college. Without that knowledge and encouragement, I sometimes fear the future for 'crabs doesn't look that bright (sorry to sound pessimistic).
I'm not going to pretend I haven't looked at a replacement for the 'crab, namely a Jaguar XJ6 or XJ40. Not only because I think they're beautiful cars, but also because of the spares availability and the passionate fan base. I've annoyed my wife countless times where I keep umming and arring about selling the 'crab and replacing it with a Jag. So to come full circle, I keep coming back here to the forum to inspire me to keep the 'crab, she's a lovely car and she's given me countless hours enjoyment ad I want to keep her going so my children can enjoy her too.
-Andrew
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Post by andrewa on Feb 3, 2016 8:40:09 GMT
Sort of guilty here! Have Toyota Landcruiser - owned from new 300000 on the clock and there's an excellent forum with a relatively small number of active worldwide members who can fix anything. I participate every two years when something goes wrong with car but that's all. I try and remember to say thanks. Similar with boats I'm afraid. At the other extreme you've got the Piston Heads gassing station which I don't get at all. Part of the problem is technology..I don't have a smart phone and "go on the internet" only for short periods. I think there's phobia/unwillingness to get involved as well. Or it's just like most clubs with a few people doing 95% of the work. Perhaps look at it the other way round - you're doing a great job used by many but not acknowledged as widely as it might be. Or it could be the Winter blues! On a completely different subject and prompted by Midnight Blue's proper use of his motor - we're holidaying in Gozo this year and whilst the rest of the family are flying I thought I drive in the 1800 - just need to sort ferries from mainland Italy to Sicily and Sicily to Malta. Anyway - pls don't hang up your guns just yet! Cheers Andrew
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Post by foglaursen on Feb 3, 2016 10:52:40 GMT
Well said Chris. I also totally agree with your frustration that you get no response to your articles. Those few times I have written here and in other forums and get no feed-back, I get the feeling of “why bother”. No one is interested anyway. On the other hand I must admit that I too am guilty in not acknowledging articles in this forum, but I can assure you, that they are very much appreciated. I will try to write a little more in the future, but problems are rare with these reliable cars. The Morris 1966 is my daily driver. And you will have to bear with my language faults, as Danish is my mother tongue. Regards Peter  |
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Post by peppib on Feb 3, 2016 16:44:42 GMT
Must admit to a sense of guilt here. I read everything but only actually reply when I have something constructive or useful to say, which on reflection is probably not the correct way of doing things, although all the technical information is very welcome. 10 years ago I could probably have been of more use to the forum as I was still in touch with (and working alongside) a 1960's trained BMC mechanic (cousin). His knowledge was extensive on everything from 1930's MG's to the final run of Rover cars in the 90's. Sadly there was a falling out so no further contact
My crab is my everyday car so to me being out and about in it is just normal.
I will try and remember to post thanks in future
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Post by snoopy11 on Feb 3, 2016 17:48:33 GMT
I'm guilty here too. I look at the forum daily and don't post a lot.
Note to self to try harder and ba110£ing accepted.
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Post by Penguin45 on Feb 3, 2016 18:10:16 GMT
Good stuff, folks. I didn't write the piece above as a request for praise or thanks. It's more to highlight the need for communication, no matter which media you choose to do it on. I'm a member of the Daewoo Forum, which has 5,800 members and also the Fiat Forum, which has 178,600 members. With those kind of numbers, activity is inevitable, which makes my occasional requests for help rather than a full immersion in their fora rather more forgiveable. When I do, I always report back my success or failure and thank those who took the time to reply. In my view that's just good manners.
There are things I'd like to do to make the forum better - a massive increase in storage space would make putting documentation on-line a simple task and make it more attractive to users for a start, as well as not having to check for massive pictures eating up the bandwidth. This is a free forum, so the consequence is the ads that appear top and bottom. They don't bother me over-much, but it would be nice if they disappeared. Long term, I'd like to get this lot onto a proper platform on it's own server, but as things stand, I can't justify the expense to serve so few active participants.
Chris.
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Post by steve4487 on Feb 3, 2016 18:22:34 GMT
Time for me to say my piece which I'm sure will create a bot of a "to do" but as we are all entitled to an opinion here goes.
First of all thank god I don't use facebook, apparently only idiots do that. I have just read this piece, and the one that Chris did a while back on the same subject, and to be frank I found both to be a bit sarcastic, but perhaps that was the intention; however as sarcasm is the lowest form of wit it is unlikely that these pieces will improve the lack of interaction on this forum much.
If Chris enjoys posting information about his cars and what works he carries out on them then that is great. To me, what seems to be the issue with the few other forum members joining in and agreeing with Chris, is what they seem to think is the most important thing regarding their posts is that they receive thanks for what they have done, it's as though they are saying "we are doing you all a favor and trying to educate you, so at the very least you say thanks".
Chris says that he is thinking about doing a piece on wheel bearings but feels "why the hell should I bother" because not many will acknowledge the fact that he has taken the time and trouble of doing so, if that is how you feel then don't bother, in fact all the members that make similar comments about the lack of appreciation regarding their efforts, then the simple thing is, don't do it.
I have posted a few things on this forum about my Landcrab, I did get comments about my car which was very nice, but to be frank, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if there weren't any comments at all, I don't post things for that reason.
Chris and others have been having a pop at LOCI members for not having much, or any presence on the internet, or getting involved in this forum, this seems to imply that they are all (i'm a member as well) a bunch of old fuddy duddies that don't live in the modern world. This comment implies that you are only modern if you spend your whole life on the internet and various forums. Have you thought that some people don't want to converse with others using the very impersonal medium of the internet and that they may prefer the old fashioned ways such as the telephone, a letter or in person.
I could post lots of information about what I do with my Landcrab on here but that would feel like I'm trying to preach to others about how to work on these cars. There is very little information that can't be found in the BL workshop manual and there is enough of then for sale so people can helps themselves if they are that way inclined.
The trouble with providing information on how to carry out various tasks on these cars is that members that do not have the skills will be encouraged to carry out work on their cars that is beyond their abilities. Whilst enthusiasm is to be welcomed, that combined with little or no knowledge can be a dangerous thing. For example some of the welding that I have seen on this forum that has been carried out on these cars is truly shocking.
I am probably one of the people that Chris is having a pop at in that I served my time as an apprentice motor mechanic at a Austin Morris dealer in the early 1970's and worked on Landcrabs so I should be sharing my knowledge that I have gained over the last nearly 45 years with ever man and his dog.
Well that's probably put the cat among the pigeons
Steve
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Post by Penguin45 on Feb 4, 2016 0:50:27 GMT
Steve, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I thank you for taking the time to express it so very clearly. I rather wish more people would. You may note that I posted again at approximately the same time as yourself, so we were probably typing at the same time and you won't have seen the post.
I'm not interested in glory seeking or thanks or anything like that. I am interested in knowing that what we put up here is getting through, is of use, may even get used. Otherwise I might as well stand on a cliff top shouting "hello" into the wind. I'd be happy if someone read a tech article and posted a better way, or an easier way, or perhaps even a professional way. More info, more choices.
Yes, I'm very frustrated with the state of things. It's a forum, so it's supposed to be interactive. I could give up, pull the articles and stick them in a blog or a static website so no-one has the opportunity to respond, but I consider that pointless.
As for LOCI, I've been a member since about three months after I got the Wolseley. I might have missed a year at some point, when the car was off the road, but I think they do an outstanding job. I can even get my newsletter on-line now, which saves the club money and the spares service is unlike any club I've been involved with. We even have a club night up here in Yorkshire on a monthly basis where a few of us get together for a chin wag and help sort each others problems out.
I'm afraid I struggle with the rest of what you've said. A workshop manual is a useful tool. It tells you everything except how hard you need to hit something, what size nuts and bolts are required and what to do if you don't have the long obsolete and impossible to find special tool which isn't to hand. Sit and wait for something to turn up? Or realise that the job is impossible and leave the half demolished car to rust away to final oblivion.
We're all grown ups on here, so I would consider that people are quite capable of deciding what they can and can't do. Whether that be by reading a manual or seeing a series of pics and writings on here doesn't really matter. In fact, seeing pictures of what may be involved in a task might even make the decision easier.
Anyway, I am saddened by the fact that you have so much to offer with your years of professional experience, yet can't see a way to share it.
And yes, I do detest Facebook and I have no intention of apologising for it.
Chris.
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Post by dave1800 on Feb 4, 2016 0:51:35 GMT
Steve
Thank you for taking the time to respond to Chris' post. All constructive and critical input is valuable to those of us trying to keep this forum active. Lack of comments is the killer!
From my personal point of view I do find it a little frustrating that so few actually contribute but many more seem content to read the posts, but that is the nature of these fora. However, what I find particularly disappointing is when someone requests specific information to help them resolve a problem and then fail to thank the member who has taken the effort to try and provide a solution to them personally and feedback as to whether it was useful. I see the failure to thank as just bad manners and providing no feedback as somewhat selfish as it deprives others of the result. I accept this forum is not alone in this respect.
I agree that a little knowledge can be dangerous as you have previously demonstrated with your comments on welding. There are some of the forum members who are clearly very skilled and those that rely on trained mechanics are lucky if they can find an old timer. The BL workshop manual is sufficient for many tasks but I feel the practical "how to" guidance given by Chris and others will be a very helpful aid to younger mechanics that owners employ who may never have changed a contact breaker and almost certainly not worked on hydrolastic suspension for example.
As far as Crab ownership is concerned, I recognise that there is a heavy bias towards the older part of the age spectrum and that we should not expect so much internet activity. I don't think Chris is intending any criticism it is just a fact of life. The internet is just another form of communication to complement the more personal means that many prefer. Both have their pluses and minuses. Unfortunately we do not know the identity of those who visit the forum but do not log on so we cannot ascertain if some of these are in fact the "fuddy duddies". I know several octogenarians (and older!)who frequent the internet and keep in touch with friends and families across the globe. The advent of IPADs etc seem to have made this much easier.
One of the difficulties of running a forum is that if there a succession of days with no posts the evidence is that they tend to die quite quickly. More posts encourage more responses. This is particularly difficult with a specialist forum such as this with lmited potential membership.
At the end of the day we are all human and our primary objective here is to try and keep the crabs alive and running. We are all human, so please understand we need to vent off occasionally if we feel this is becoming a one way street. This is a cry for help!
regards
David
I was clearly typing this at the same time as Chris' was responding so apologies for any duplication
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Post by Nick RS on Feb 4, 2016 6:51:04 GMT
I am probably just going to repeat what's written above in saying that the main plea is dialogue and feedback.
There are a huge number of articles and guides here and Google searches are now so powerful that it is possible to land on the right page by searching for something like "Landcrab suspension arms" and it will show a link to a page on this forum within the first few entries. I have done this for the non-Landcrab I own and find it stops me from asking a question that has already been answered elsewhere. As this library of knowledge increases then we may well see fewer questions posted online. The questions always seem to generate more responses than the reports as they invite others to join in. There have been fewer asked on here of late and that may be just a phase we are going through. A lot of Landcrab owners I have met have either had them a long time or used to maintain one years ago and seem to know their stuff. I was more or less new to them and with little experience I joined this forum for the help on offer as well as the community. When I couldn't fathom my timing the advice was very freely given (thank you David). I don't own a car at the moment so there is less on here from me. I still have all my parts books, manuals, brochures and trade price guides and will get stuck in if there is something I can find for others.
This forum is what we make of it. If there really are only a few who want to take part then that is kind of OK with me as the last thing I would want is someone feeling "Oh goodness, can't think what to say, better come up with something" as then it becomes are chore and no-one wants that. If you just want to click in and watch what is posted then carry on, but if you want to have a go and add your thoughts then you will always be welcome here.
Nick
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Post by steve4487 on Feb 4, 2016 18:20:26 GMT
Chris & Dave
Thank you your replies to my post. The topic that we agree on is that if a member asks for your help and you take the time and trouble to reply with an explanation and pictures etc then at the very least you should receive a thank you. Not doing so is just plain bad manners.
As we won't agree on the other subjects its best not to get involved in a war of words and just agree to disagree.
Steve
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Post by threelitre on Feb 8, 2016 0:32:03 GMT
Chris (& Dave & the other regular contributors),
I agree with what has been said - me myself being a good example between participating for some time and then going quiet for another period. The excuses are rather typical (house, kids, work), but rather valid. When new to classic car ownership (well, elderly used ones at the time), I did write articles and technical input etc. to the club mags quite often. Right now I do still have the ideas for stuff to write about - but I often fail to sit down and actually do it.
Without access to interaction with fellow enthusiasts - be it on the phone, at shows or on forums, I would probably have thrown the towel in earlier (well, unlikely), but certainly not got half of the enjoyment out of the cars.
When teaching students about 15 years ago, I felt very similar: If they simply sit in front of you silently you have no idea if they do actually understand a word or if you are just telling them complete nonsense - the feedback in any form, like questions during the course, make all the difference.
Don't let yourself be dishartened!
Regards,
Alexander
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midnightblue
Member
Posts: 52 
Attribute: International Man of Mystery
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Post by midnightblue on Feb 27, 2016 20:03:03 GMT
This is a valuable and friendly forum, and I don't think a low level of activity is anything to worry about.
The Rolls Royce Enthusiasts' Club has the same problem but in spades. The average age of a RR club car is over 65 (the pre-war cars are almost all owned by Club members; post 2000 ones usually aren't) and membership is correspondingly elderly. Older people tend not to be internet users. There was a move a few years ago to make the glossy magazine available online, as the LOCI mag has been for ages. It died the death.
I think it is realistic to accept that for whatever reason, some people just don't like the internet - they use e-mail but not much more. Well, fine, that's their choice. They are missing out on some very helpful advice (and some gorgeous pix) that I for one have received here, but if people don't wanna, they don't wanna. And you can't make them.
So, in my humble opinion, accept things as they are. I've found people helpful and informative, and they've put up with my witterings.
There is something which is perhaps relevant: this site accepts dynamic IPs. The Wolseley Owner's Club site doesn't. I access the 'net with a mobile broadband connection, three.co.uk, and this uses dynamic IP. Therefore I can no longer use the WOC site.
And, despite what someone else said, I'm not a WOC member (you might have thought this because I used to post on a WOC site - any LOCI member can do this). So I can't fix the problem, only a WOC member can. This means, this forum is my lifeline for all things 'crab.
Completely off topic: my County Councillor broke down in Yorkshire a couple of days ago. Landcrab to the rescue. She used to drive an Austin 1100 and was *so* nostalgic! She drove it for a few km down the A1. Ear to ear smile, shoes kicked off, all we needed was Radio Caroline on the radio. As she said, there's something very tactile about the mini/1100/1800 cars. They just *feel* different, to drive, to modern cars, and the comparison isn't all in favour of the newer stuff.
MidnightBlue
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