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Post by wayne962 on Jul 10, 2023 4:44:41 GMT
Hi all. Thanks in advance for your help. I'm well versed in Porsche and BMW engines, having written a few books on them, but this early English stuff is giving me fits! BMC B-Series engine, tuned by Janspeed, installed in a 1969 Adams Probe 16 (one of three made - Kubrick used a Probe 16 in the Clockwork Orange - truly a unique and unusual car). Anyways, the engine was rebuilt, and I've been having issues with it. I'm going back and forth with the rebuilder, but I thought I would post here for some input. I can add more later, but the crux is - after mucking with it for hours, I finally got it running well enough to take it on a drive through SoCal. After about 20 miles or so, I parked it in a lot, and noticed it was *dumping* oil out the bottom of the engine. Not where the shift cables go, but near where the bellhousing meets the engine/transmission. It's a bit hard to explain, I will post some photos. At the same time, there was some type of smoke coming from the hole where the starter disconnect is located. It did not smell like clutch smoke, or burned oil - it pretty much had almost no odor whatsoever. It did not smell like coolant. Very, very odd. Very, very odd. I have video and I have photos. I also have no clue where the oil came from. I removed the engine, and took it back to the shop, and they put a scope down there and said it looked dry. Wow, nearly impossible. They also ran it on the bench in the dyno room and it was bone dry. I saw it running myself. I'm completely flabbergasted, as this engine was an environmental disaster site when I brought it home. They suggested that it was pouring out of the shift cables, but I highly doubt that - it doesn't appear that way on the video. Frankly, I do feel silly, as I would have paid much more attention and took many more photos if I thought that the problem would just magically disappear. I thought it was a main seal popping out (I was sure of this), but that wouldn't just seal itself. Everyone here (including the folks at the shop) are confused. Thoughts? -Wayne
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Post by wayne962 on Jul 10, 2023 4:47:19 GMT
More photos...
Links to some videos:
thx,
Wayne
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Post by jeff on Jul 10, 2023 15:56:42 GMT
Is your oil pressure within limits?.If its too high, (ie relief valve not blowing off at correct pressure)) you could get oil passing into all sorts of places it shouldn't be. The white smoke could be oil being sprayed onto a hot surface.  Just random thoughts, but crankcase pressure could be too high, check breather. Could also be some sort of protective substance burning off. Lastly, have a very close look for a crack where oil is dripping from. Jeff |
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 10, 2023 17:20:32 GMT
There's a jiggle pin at the bottom of the clutch housing to allow oil to escape if the crank seal fails. That smoke is coming from the clutch/starter housing (Put a bung in the hole when you're sorted.) so that's where I'd be looking. On a 'Crab, unfortunately, that's an engine out job. The shift cables don't pour oil. They will weep at the housing connection as you have found out. The "B" engine really is a very simple engine. Even I've put a few together and I'm "just the bodywork guy".  The clutch housing and outside transfer gears make it a bit more complex as an assembly, but really, if they've worked on an MGB engine they should be able to deal with this. One off-the-wall thing that comes to mind is the big ali plate which fits to the end of the engine is retained by two different sizes and three lengths of bolts, including the secret one down a hole. It's very easy to miss. I'm not sure from memory if any of those retaining bolts penetrate the block casting, but if they did... Chris. |
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Post by 1800heap on Jul 10, 2023 22:01:05 GMT
Hi Wayne
What springs to mind for me is the oil has come from the transfer case. There is a limited amount of oil in there, which you must put in using the little plug at the top of the transfer case. The area does not communicate with the gearbox below the oil level in the sump area. Ie will not fill easily from the sump oil! There is an oil seal opposite the crank seal were the clutch shaft goes into the transfer case. Once you loose all that oil it will only be very very slowly refilled from the sump. Hence the leak will stop once the transfer case is empty. Inspection of the dip stick will show normal oil level however. I would suspect that oil seal. The oil would come out from the bell housing as Chris suggested as it does with the main seal leaking, but internally on the opposite side of the bell housing, and would not be thrown around by the flywheel. Hope this helps.
Nick
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Post by wayne962 on Jul 26, 2023 4:54:52 GMT
Hi everyone. Sorry, I left for an RV (Caravan) trip to Northern California on the day that I posted this, and I just got back! Here are the details.
Recap: As I mentioned previously, I took the engine back to the rebuilder for them to look at. The leak was so huge that I thought it was the main shaft seal, and that pressure had built up in the crankcase and had blown it out. Well, they got it there, and started it up, and it didn't leak a drop! I almost didn't believe them - I went there and saw it run myself. This is quite a change from when it left a literal line of oil up my driveway and into the garage when I brought it back.
Update: the shop took off the clutch housing and the transfer case, and there wasn't much of anything there, except for a small weep from the mainshaft seal. This also surprised me too. I have a photo, I will post it here.
I'm going to read through these responses a bit more, but I wanted to post the photo and an update first?
Also see the weird drip of something (looks like oil) from the clutch lever interface (could be brake fluid - I didn't look too closely).
I'm also now looking for a source for the bellhousing and transfer case gaskets - the previous source in Scottland that the shop had used has no more in stock?
-Wayne
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Post by wayne962 on Jul 26, 2023 4:59:08 GMT
There's a jiggle pin at the bottom of the clutch housing to allow oil to escape if the crank seal fails.One off-the-wall thing that comes to mind is the big ali plate which fits to the end of the engine is retained by two different sizes and three lengths of bolts, including the secret one down a hole. It's very easy to miss.
Do you happen to have a photo of this "jiggle pin"? That would be helpful.
Also a photo of the "secret one down a hole"? Looking at my photo above, I can't see a hole or hidden one?
thx,
Wayne
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Post by dave1800 on Jul 26, 2023 12:59:34 GMT
The jiggle pin is just a split pin in a small hole at the base of the bell housing. It just keeps the tiny hole open and should prevent it from sludging up. David There's a jiggle pin at the bottom of the clutch housing to allow oil to escape if the crank seal fails.One off-the-wall thing that comes to mind is the big ali plate which fits to the end of the engine is retained by two different sizes and three lengths of bolts, including the secret one down a hole. It's very easy to miss. Do you happen to have a photo of this "jiggle pin"? That would be helpful. Also a photo of the "secret one down a hole"? Looking at my photo above, I can't see a hole or hidden one? thx, Wayne
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Post by Penguin45 on Jul 26, 2023 18:52:55 GMT
Having a senior moment there. Wayne. The secret bolt down the hole is in the transfer casing outside the clutch.
If you can't find a replacement gasket, bear in mind that the only section which holds oil is bottom left (red arrow going through it). The rest of the gasket is effectively acting as a spacer for the housing. It looks like there was very little oil in there, so bear in mind Nick's comment about running a pint of oil in there through the square nut on top of the casing.
The fluid on the clutch arm bellow can really only be from the clutch cylinder, so double check that.
Chris.
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Post by wayne962 on Jul 26, 2023 19:44:14 GMT
Thanks, I will send this comment to my builder - doesn't look like that transfer case was filled with anything. Now that I think of it, it did seem odd to me that there was a gasket in there, as it was dry. I will pull out the workshop manual this evening and see if i can find the section that goes over that so that I can send that to them.
I think the oil must have been coming from that seal, although in the photos, it looks like it's coming from above there and dripping out.
I'm planning on stopping by the shop tomorrow and spending some time taking a much closer look.
Thx,
Wayne
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The clutch housing and outside transfer gears make it a bit more complex as an assembly, but really, if they've worked on an MGB engine they should be able to deal with this.
