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Post by hydrolastic on Jan 13, 2013 20:32:22 GMT
Hello people, New to the board. Not new to British cars as i have a 66 Wolseley Hornet, and a MG 1100 both restored. Both cars are repaired and free from rust also the repairs were done to a standard where on a lift or even disassembled you could not tell metalwork had been done. The hornet 998 engine was replaced with an 1100 engine and a four syncro gearbox. while the 1100 has a cooper s engine. I also race a 67 mini cooper S in the vintage class on the west coast of the US. Now onto the landcrab or the austin 1800 it is a 70 model year Canadian car. I received it six years ago from a guy who had disassembled it then went on a drug binge. I got the car missing nearly all of the drive train and poorly stored so it had some rust in the sills and floor pan. Not really wanting to go to the full restoration on this car I have decided to make it into a race car in the lemons series. This means i just have to repair the floor enough to get a roll cage in it. And figure out how to stuff another engine into it. The engine i have chosen is the Mazda klde v6 engine. Mine came from a ford probe. but the gearbox is shot. So i have to get another engine this one will just be a mock up for all of the mounts. It is also going to be a tight fit as the engine is 26" long and it is going into a space just 29" I realize that most people are just into restoring cars back to stock but this one is just not worthy of that and besides the build has already been started. but if you like seeing race car builds this should be fun. I will start posting photo's as soon as i figure out how to do that on this board. see you then. Aaron
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Post by Penguin45 on Jan 14, 2013 0:19:48 GMT
Hi Aaron. Some of them are just too far gone to return to standard. Mazda, eh? Better have a look at THIS THEN. I don't know what type of racing you have in mind, but the 'Crabs were notable long distance and endurance cars back in the day. Like - half way round the world was quite normal! Enjoy. Chris.
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Post by dave1800 on Jan 14, 2013 0:53:04 GMT
Hi Aaron Have a look at this series of articles about fitting a Honda engine into an Australian 1800 ute. The project is still ongoing and goes into some of the practical issues you are likely to encounter with your choice of engine. Just do a search for the earlier parts of the article. One issue yet to be addressed is how the car (ute) will handle with such a change in weight distribution with a much lighter engine and possibly limited options for changing the hydrolastic suspension. I think you will like this website - lots of excellent info and there's quite a lot more on the 1800. Regards David autospeed.com/cms/title_Restoring-the-Ute-Part-5/A_112817/article.html
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Post by hydrolastic on Jan 15, 2013 4:35:00 GMT
thanks guys, I have seen the article on the auto speed site. I am at almost the same stage. but the fit and finish will be considerably less quality on my car. Some differences will be flip front end for easy engine changes, cut wheel wells, race fuel cell and the rest of the race parts. I did like the insight as to what to do about the displacer frame tube housing being right above the driveshafts. in my case the rear exhaust manifold is in the way and exits right at the tube. Have yet to test fit the engine but turning the manifold over should get it out of the way but the outlet will be facing up so something will have to be done to get it out to the rear of the car. The rest seems pretty straightforward hydraulic clutch slave, cable throttle, the hard part for me will be the electrical as i have never been good but it is about time i learned. will keep you posted. Aaron
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Post by Keef on Jan 15, 2013 14:35:53 GMT
Welcome Aaron. Look forward to seeing more of your crab.
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Post by hydrolastic on Jan 16, 2013 2:44:42 GMT
Thank's again, looking at the wheels i need wider rims. does anyone know what the bolt circle pattern and offset is for a mk2 1800 is? i believe it is 4.5 but not sure.
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Post by dave1800 on Jan 16, 2013 3:06:40 GMT
Have you contacted Julian Edgar of the Autospeed site and exchanged ideas and info with him? I can send him an email if you don't have his contact details. Regards David Thank's again, looking at the wheels i need wider rims. does anyone know what the bolt circle pattern and offset is for a mk2 1800 is? i believe it is 4.5 but not sure.
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Post by hydrolastic on Jan 17, 2013 23:02:20 GMT
Hello Dave, yes Julians address would be good, finally figured out the wheel pattern 5x5 and the offset is guessed at +45 so i have decided to see if i can use the ford 5x 4.5 pattern and a set of accord 15" wheels to be able to get brake clearance and a wider tire. is there a keystroke by keystroke description of how to post pictures? thanks Aaron
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Post by Penguin45 on Jan 18, 2013 1:46:04 GMT
Aaron, have a look at Rover SD1 wheels - they go straight on and plenty of choice. A standard 'Crab does look rather ridiculous on a set of pepper pots; it won't matter on a track car.
Photos - most of us tend to upload from a hosting site. Most of mine were on Photobucket, although I'm migrating toward Flickr since they changed the way Photobucket works. Pretty intuitive to use and a single click to put the photos on the site.
Chris.
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Post by hydrolastic on Feb 12, 2013 3:28:54 GMT
Well progress is going slow. I had to buy all new mounts cause the engine donor car mounts were broken but i figured out that if i flipped the rear mount over and used the smaller forward mount in the rear i can fit it in under the hydrolastic displacer's just under the accelerator pedal. With the new mounts i plan on building the structure to hold the engine on both sides then the front and rear mounts. I have been getting the front end ready to fit to the body and am in the process of welding the hood to the fenders. I have a contact with someone i can get a manual trans pedal assembly and this will then get the probe brakes adapted to it. there is an upgrade to put 2007 Mazda 6 front brakes for a 11.8" rotor that is vented and a full inch thick i am hoping that this upgrade will handle 24 hours of racing. I pulled the dash out of the car and the heater i plan on putting it back minus the heater just cause i like the thought that the interior still look like the luxury cruiser it is. speaking of luxury cruiser I was looking at the front suspension and the caster/camber settings are a stately +1 caster and +1 camber i plan on running +5 caster and -2.5 camber to get that i need to build a lower arm mount that is adjustable and some new front radius arm mounts. I am wary of using the radius rods from the 1800 and may make a set of adjustable ones or strenghten these. The final thing will be to add some ackerman to the steering, i had never seen a 0 ackerman car before but the mini has a ton of it so i got to put some into this one. I am sure there will be more stuff done to the front suspension as i got to figure out how to handle the front end dive these cars are notorious for. Imagine standing on the brakes at 110 mph not something i am looking forward to really. unless i can get a way to control it. Just working on getting the front floor pans replaced so the roll cage can start to go into it. That's it for now.
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Post by dave1800 on Feb 12, 2013 8:48:11 GMT
I believe the low castor figure was primarily to keep the steering lighter. Without the 1800 lump there should be less weight up front so the higher castor shouldn't be an issue. (The power steering cars ran a slightly higher castor angle) I thought reverse Ackerman was desirable for racing to keep tyre temperatures down? I didn't know the 1800 was notorious for nose dive under braking it wasn't my experience, but I did not race. The Mk1 (and to a lesser extent the Mk11) rear brake pressure limiting/reducing valve ensured the rear brakes pulled the rear of the car down opposing the front dive. They certainly dived far less than most of their contemporaries. Maybe the Canadian braking system in 1970 used the Mk111 reducing valve which usually gave less braking to the rear - changed I believe as a result of legislation to ensure no rear wheel lock up - resulting in less rear sinking under braking. Thanks for the update - did you swop notes with Julian? Regards David I was looking at the front suspension and the caster/camber settings are a stately +1 caster and +1 camber i plan on running +5 caster and -2.5 camber.... The final thing will be to add some ackerman to the steering, i had never seen a 0 ackerman car before but the mini has a ton of it so i got to put some into this one. I am sure there will be more stuff done to the front suspension as i got to figure out how to handle the front end dive these cars are notorious for.
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Post by hydrolastic on Feb 13, 2013 3:23:49 GMT
Well David, i am pretty familiar with the unique hydrolastic system. Cut a smaller 1100 unit open on the lathe a while back. realized that the cylinder is comprised of two systems really. The upper part is just rubber in sorta a doughnut shape. this is the spring. The lower part is a bladder that move codependantly with the lower part of the rubber spring and also a bit on its own as pumps fluid in and out of the displacer. because there is a delay so to speak it acts as a shock damper. i plan on trying to put brass washers in the fluid fittings with holes in it to slow it even further. i will start with larger holes and move to smaller ones till i get a noticeable effect. Also i plan on doing something i did on the hydro Hornet where i put adjustable shocks on the front set on the lowest setting. noticableably less nose dive on initial braking but virtually unnoticeable the rest of the time. So this guy will get a set of mini shocks on it. they are coilovers so once i get it on its wheels i will see if the engine and trans are heavier or lighter than the b series since i don't have an engine for it there is no way of knowing if it is lighter but i have to say the KLDE V6 engine/trans seems pretty heavy on the lift. if it is heavier i can put some springs on it to level it out. the mini handles like its on rails so the 1800 will get ackerman as far as anti ackerman on f1 cars i don't think i will approach the levels to worry about it. would rather have it than not. Since there is bigger brakes on the front because the probe can mount them i expect that braking will be a bit later than most people have pushed the 1800 to. i want it to turn in as fast as possible. But also the base probe used drum brakes on the rear so it will get the full probe system on it with only the pedal assembly and the rear drums from the 1800 on it. got to get to work i will check in in a few weeks. til then. Aaron
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Post by dave1800 on Feb 13, 2013 5:40:43 GMT
Hi Aaron If I recall correctly I have read that on some of the rally cars they used to fit a valve in line with the interconnecting pipe (for rallying was routed inside the car) and it served two purposes. First it allowed for raising and lowering the suspension on the fly by attaching a pump and I believe could control the interconnecting fluid flow acting as a variable damper and suspension stiffener even going as far as blocking the fluid transfer altogether. You may be interested in this article on the development of the hydrolastic suspension copeland.id.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Hydrolastic.pdf I believe the adjustable front shock absorber was recommended by the late Sir Alex Moulton as a solution to improving handling and ride. I think that the V8 4.4L auto prototype assembled in Australia didn't weigh any more than with the 1800 cast iron engine so hopefully you won't be too far adrift. I look forward to your next installment with interest! Regards David i plan on trying to put brass washers in the fluid fittings with holes in it to slow it even further. i will start with larger holes and move to smaller ones till i get a noticeable effect. Also i plan on doing something i did on the hydro Hornet where i put adjustable shocks on the front set on the lowest setting. noticableably less nose dive on initial braking but virtually unnoticeable the rest of the time. So this guy will get a set of mini shocks on it. they are coilovers so once i get it on its wheels i will see if the engine and trans are heavier or lighter than the b series since i don't have an engine for it there is no way of knowing if it is lighter but i have to say the KLDE V6 engine/trans seems pretty heavy on the lift. if it is heavier i can put some springs on it to level it out. the mini handles like its on rails so the 1800 will get ackerman as far as anti ackerman on f1 cars i don't think i will approach the levels to worry about it. would rather have it than not. Since there is bigger brakes on the front because the probe can mount them i expect that braking will be a bit later than most people have pushed the 1800 to. i want it to turn in as fast as possible. But also the base probe used drum brakes on the rear so it will get the full probe system on it with only the pedal assembly and the rear drums from the 1800 on it. got to get to work i will check in in a few weeks. til then. Aaron
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Post by threelitre on Feb 13, 2013 11:08:44 GMT
The inserted washer as additional damping was done on the 1100/1300 when the GT needed a sportier handling and no money was available for properly retuned Hydrolastic units. Alex Moulton was quite proud of the achievement with 2 measures costing pennies: A little less fluid pressure for lower ride height AND higher spring and damping rates and the washer inserted into the connection from the front unit to the interconnection pipe to damp out the vertical bounce a bit more.
One of our 1300s is fitted with dampers all round. These are Mini dampers fitted in a way that they do act quite weakly. But this, together with a reset front geometry (a little negative camber) and Allegro wheels of 165/70 size transformed the handling, yet the comfort is hardly touched. Not a 'pure' system anymore, but Alex Moulton agreed it to be very good when I offered him a test ride.
So in a way you are thinking of two modifications with full approval from Mr. Hydrolastic himself...
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Post by hydrolastic on May 18, 2013 15:47:05 GMT
Hello again, Finally got the engine in it's proper place turns out the probe is offset in the car 1 inch towards the driver I have it fixed now. the floorpans are in and the Sills have been torn out. Also it is now apparent that this car had been hit and repaired on the front drivers (left) side. as things were not lining up funny thing is i could not see where it was bent. finally i saw a wrinkle in the sheet metal under the displacer to the floor. it bent the lower part of the car not a lot but. as it got out to the end of the framerail the left side wing was drooping about 3/8 of an inch. i made a new framerail and have laid out the suspension points to compensate. I have also made new lower arm and radius rod out of chromemoly steel and rod ends. did not want to replicate what was there so i have welded the a 1" spacer to the aluminum housing to get the suspension wider as the probe from flange to flange is 2 inches wider than the 1800. to keep the steering correct the inner lower mount for the arm is moving in about a half inch. the lower arms are adjustable so we will see what works at the track. two months to go and the rollcage still needs to go in but that is next weekend. Some of the cosmetics have been worked on and the bonnet will get a set of flat black stripes or completely black as the paint blistered when i welded it to the wings. I don't know if i am just liking it more or what but i have to say it does not look bad as a race car. Aaron
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