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Post by kelsham on Sept 17, 2012 15:38:06 GMT
Well it looks as if I have cured the poor starting that had me looking for manifold drain pipes.
While trying to start the engine, the starter suddenly stopped operating.
I reached beneath the bonnet and pulled at the solenoid wires, this gave a resumption of service, however I noticed that one of the wires seemed a little loose beneath its terminal cover.
A further pull and it came out of the cover complete with serious corrosion.
Once I remade the connector, the car started immediately. Now starts hot or cold.
A quick look at the wiring diagram and I can't spot why, doubtless there is a connection I have been unable to spot.
The feed from the negative battery terminal is connected through the solenoid terminals.( positive earth car)
It looks like you were right about the need for drain pipes Tommy, why did I ever doubt?
Regards kels.
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Post by Penguin45 on Sept 24, 2012 17:53:23 GMT
Good result, Kels.
It's one of those winter jobs I do every year - clean the major connections and earths. Tiresome and time consuming but worth it.
Chris.
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Post by kelsham on Sept 25, 2012 7:26:05 GMT
The really good news, the car is still starting easily hot or cold. I have tried it several times.
It was actually corrosion within the lucar connection. It broke in the middle of the terminal.
Regards Kels.
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Post by dave1800 on Sept 25, 2012 9:17:23 GMT
Good to hear you've sorted out this ongoing issue. I am sure you know this but often the easiest ways to check out a connection without dismantling it and risking making a poor contact out of a good one is to check for a voltage drop across it on the wires either side as close as possible when you can access them. This is often easier and more accurate than checking for resistance with old wiring as voltmeters (analogue or digital) have high impedance (read resistance) so are less dependent on you getting a really good contact - also by checking for a voltage drop you are checking in actual operating conditions. Not always possible or easy as with your starter solenoid I agree. (I stand to be shot down by Chris with his expertise having made the above comments!) Regards David The really good news, the car is still starting easily hot or cold. I have tried it several times. It was actually corrosion within the lucar connection. It broke in the middle of the terminal. Regards Kels. |
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Post by Penguin45 on Sept 25, 2012 16:47:47 GMT
Certainly not, David - you are exactly correct.
Chris.
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Post by kelsham on Sept 26, 2012 14:55:52 GMT
Yes the poor starting was very strange, first the needle valve began to cause flooding of the carb. Once I had cured this, I found it difficult to start.
I had no idea that there was a possible voltage drop, so never even thought of looking for one.
I only discovered it when the starter solenoid failed to energise every time.
Regards Kels.
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Post by kelsham on Nov 14, 2012 15:00:20 GMT
Went for a drive this week, pulled like a train, When I got home I parked outside for a while. When I went to restart she just churned over.
Eventually fired and ran perfectly, I still think I need to replace the drain pipes that fit into the bottom of the manifold. Can anyone suggest a source?
Regards Kels.
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Post by dave1800 on Nov 15, 2012 4:33:41 GMT
Hi Kels I really don't think those drain pipes are the CAUSE of your problem. I would guess that your carb is still flooding and that those drain pipes would help if a carb floods but I don't think they should be necessary if the carb is working correctly. Have you looked at the plugs? Maybe also try another coil if you have one handy, they can present a whole range of odd symptoms. regards David Went for a drive this week, pulled like a train, When I got home I parked outside for a while. When I went to restart she just churned over. Eventually fired and ran perfectly, I still think I need to replace the drain pipes that fit into the bottom of the manifold. Can anyone suggest a source? Regards Kels. |
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Post by tommydp on Nov 16, 2012 0:01:50 GMT
I agree with Dave, and doubt the drain pipes cause this. I'd look at the ignition circuit. If running points, perhaps your condenser gets bad and has a short when car gets hot. When it plays up, check spark from the coil HT lead. Remove the lead at the distributor cap and hold it 6 mm from the engine block, using insulated pliers, as you flick the points open by hand. (Ignition on). You shoul have a blue, fat spark making a cracking sound. If condenser is shorted, you'll barely notice a spark. Could be coil too, of course.
You are running a 12 volts, non ballasted coil?
How about your HT leads. I've done some discoveries lately regarding these and I'm going back to copper leads. I noticed the white crab had a fat, blue whitish spark when doing the above mentioned test while the blue one had a thinner, yellowish spark. In deed looked weaker to me.
White one has copper ht lead from coil, blue one has modern, carbon(?) one of uncertain quality. Tried a copper lead in stead of this, and the spark got blue and stronger.
So, perhaps you should try a set of copper ht leads?
Good luck! Tommy
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Post by kelsham on Nov 16, 2012 9:07:01 GMT
I have changed the coil, rotor arm, cap, Points, condenser, leads,(copper) needle valve and float, petrol pump, At present she starts fairly easily when cold, starts OK. After a short stop. It is only when stood for a time that she just turns over.
I suppose it is possible that I have a second faulty component.
Maybe I am clutching at straws, I understand that the drains are fitted to stop excess fuel pooling in the manifold.
I will probably substitute the coil again. I agree that an electrical short when warm seems to be indicated.
Ice outside at the moment, plenty of time to ruminate. Thanks for your replies.
Kels.
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Post by dave1800 on Nov 16, 2012 14:07:40 GMT
Hi Kels When it gets warmer and the car does this again I think it is a good case for back to basics. Are you getting a good spark and is there fuel delivery when you turn the engine over? If it was excess fuel pooling in the manifold I would expect this to show up when trying to restart hot not after being allowed to cool down. Given your earlier electrical problem it may be worth connecting a wire directly from the battery +ve to the coil bypassing the ignition switch and wiring - when it won't start. Also examine the plugs. One final thought - condensation in the distributor cap perhaps on cooling - like you I'm clutching at straws. Regards David I have changed the coil, rotor arm, cap, Points, condenser, leads,(copper) needle valve and float, petrol pump, At present she starts fairly easily when cold, starts OK. After a short stop. It is only when stood for a time that she just turns over. I suppose it is possible that I have a second faulty component. Maybe I am clutching at straws, I understand that the drains are fitted to stop excess fuel pooling in the manifold. I will probably substitute the coil again. I agree that an electrical short when warm seems to be indicated. Ice outside at the moment, plenty of time to ruminate. Thanks for your replies. Kels. |
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Post by kelsham on Nov 18, 2012 14:54:59 GMT
Well, I had another half hearted attempt to find the cause of the poor starting today. Truth is I decided to run ten miles down to the local shop and buy a paper.
When I pulled out the choke she just turned over and over.
Thinking back to advice offered on here, wondered if there was condensation in the dizzy cap.
No such luck, decided to check the spark with a tester that you fit into the HT lead and see it sparking. Well it sparked but seemed a bit weak. Looking at the points they did not inspire confidence, only a few thousand miles since they were fitted. they had a crater one side, strangely not any sign of a pip on the other side?
I knew I had a spare set somewhere a search found a new condenser set of points and a new rotor arm, I am awash with rotor arms, counted six in the spares kit.
Started to fit new points and found the hole that goes over the base plate pin too small.
Cleaned old points set the gap and fitted new condensor, tried starter under the bonnet and got weak reading at the HT tester. I then noticed the rotor arm sitting on the side of the radiator. How the spark tester was indicating a spark is beyond me. Fitted the rotor arm and still got a weak looking spark.
More serious action seemed required. Wheedled wife into helping, I attacked my Flashtester into the HT lead and she spun the engine over as I altered the spark gap. Suddenly the engine was running? Bit rough but the choke was in. Pulled it out and she ran well.
Took her for a twenty mile run and when I got home she restarted after half an hour immediately.
Do you think she's toying with me?
I also swapped coil early on and it did not help.
Regards Kels
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Post by Penguin45 on Nov 18, 2012 16:02:26 GMT
An awful lot of ignition components these days are plain carp. New stuff purporting to be Lucas is just awful...... Points pitting in no time, the heel just wearing away, condensers that can last 500 miles, rotor arms shorting out at random, the list goes on. Part of the reason I went electronic. Choices are go electronic or get onto THE DISTRIBUTOR DOCTOR, who has quality remanufactured components that actually work. You won't regret it. Martin is extremely knowledgable and very helpful. Chris. |
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Post by dave1800 on Nov 19, 2012 1:54:16 GMT
Chris, I agree with your advice. Personally I would go electronic as I did years ago when doing high daily mileages to avoid the engine going going off tune. But I kept a spare base plate complete with adjusted points and condensor in the boot which meant I could revert in a few minutes if the electronics failed. Good advice to get quality items from THE DISTRIBUTOR DOCTOR and avoid all thes headaches. If you work it out a contact breaker opens and closes 1 million times every 2 hours 40 minutes at 3,000 rpm - it needs to be high quality. I would not advise changing to an electronic system to cure a problem, it only makes diagnosis more complicated - but get it sorted first - then change. (I belive Kels isn't in favour of electronic ignition anyway). In light of Kels' earlier problems I think he should check the voltage across the coil with points open and then closed to check the integrity of the wiring and also the current through the coil. One final thought - Kels' car is a Mk1 which originally had an electric fuel pump but he fitted a later engine which would drive a mechanical fuel pump. I don't know which he is using but if the latter the re-routing of the fuel line required could perhaps lead to fuel vapour lock? It looks as though the problem is more likely to be electrical though. regards David An awful lot of ignition components these days are plain carp. New stuff purporting to be Lucas is just awful...... Points pitting in no time, the heel just wearing away, condensers that can last 500 miles, rotor arms shorting out at random, the list goes on. Part of the reason I went electronic. Choices are go electronic or get onto THE DISTRIBUTOR DOCTOR, who has quality remanufactured components that actually work. You won't regret it. Martin is extremely knowledgable and very helpful. Chris. |
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Post by kelsham on Nov 20, 2012 10:03:23 GMT
David you have a good memory. Although I have a later ex MOD engine, I have blanked off the mechanical petrol pump and am using the original SU pump.
As to electronic ignition, I am beginning to weaken in the light of my present troubles.
I went out this morning and started the car up in the garage. She fired up very quickly, she was churning over a bit before starting before the latest change of components.
One further point, my flashtester was only showing HT to about three quarters of the green scale. Might substitute another coil and try again.
Thanks for your interest regards Kels.
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